Emergency Help Sekka Hinoki

[kyalune]

Hi all,

New to BN forum and 3 years into Bonsai, just really getting more involved other than keeping trees alive.

I got 2 Sekka (first time with this species) in June I'm in NE OH so zone 6a. and one of them is doing quite poorly. It took a turn for the worst over the weekend.

The foliage has been slowly turning dull green and crispy and if left on the tree turns brown. Both trees have been watered and benched the same. I think it is root rot.

I do not have a green house and I know this is a bad time of year to repot Sekka.

Attached are photos of the sick tree, if need be I can upload the other. Any advice is appreciated, I do think this tree is almost out of time left if in current state.

Thank you!

 

[akillas]

6a you could still repot if you can protect the pot from the cold in the coming winter imo
Is the tree in full sun 8h+- a day?
How often do you water?

Its a 'rough' time to repot depending on where you live, but you can still do it if you are attentive afterwards(misting frequently,good positioning, no pruning the roots)You could of course wait to do it towards the end of the winter but then you risk losing the whole tree with the wet season..

That soil looks like the cookie cutter soil nurseries use. Its not meant to be a long term solution, you should remove this soil carefully with water and a root hook, and re-pot to something looser, inorganic if you care to spend a bit more(pumice,lava rock,akadama,zeolite,vermiculite,perlite,etc) *ratios depending on your location and watering habits*
Otherwise just add generous amounts of perlite to whatever soil you have on hand, at the very least.

By looking at your photos i would say the problem lies with the soil.
Could also be root-bound, i would take a long thick-ish needle and puncture 2-3 holes in the heart of the root mass IF you cannot untagle it this time in the repot.


Keep it in bright shade for a week or two after that operation, until it shows signs of recovery and do NOT touch the foliage- let the tree decide what to keep.

Beautiful tree, you can still save it with minimal dieback.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I have a little one of these guys to play around with, and it did not do really well until I completely transplanted it out of organic soil and got it into a decent bonsai soil mix (pumice/lava/akadama). By their very nature, they are dwarfs and don't grow that fast, but I would agree with @akillas and say that your roots are in trouble and it is driving die-back in your foliage.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I had one and the yellow just kept creeping up the tree until the whole thing was dead.

However, I never removed it from organic soil, as @Bonsai Nut said. That might have been my fatal mistake.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I had one and the yellow just kept creeping up the tree until the whole thing was dead.

However, I never removed it from organic soil, as @Bonsai Nut said. That might have been my fatal mistake.

Interestingly, I was just at the Mr Maple open house and they were selling pretty decent sized ones (18" - 24") in 5 gallon pots. Someone grabbed about ten of them

I got mine as a gift from another bonsai enthusiast who was like "here take one and mess around with it and see how it goes" I consider it a fickle tree - at least compared to most everything else I own.

 

[kyalune]

6a you could still repot if you can protect the pot from the cold in the coming winter imo
Is the tree in full sun 8h+- a day?
How often do you water?

Its a 'rough' time to repot depending on where you live, but you can still do it if you are attentive afterwards(misting frequently,good positioning, no pruning the roots)You could of course wait to do it towards the end of the winter but then you risk losing the whole tree with the wet season..

That soil looks like the cookie cutter soil nurseries use. Its not meant to be a long term solution, you should remove this soil carefully with water and a root hook, and re-pot to something looser, inorganic if you care to spend a bit more(pumice,lava rock,akadama,zeolite,vermiculite,perlite,etc) *ratios depending on your location and watering habits*
Otherwise just add generous amounts of perlite to whatever soil you have on hand, at the very least.

By looking at your photos i would say the problem lies with the soil.
Could also be root-bound, i would take a long thick-ish needle and puncture 2-3 holes in the heart of the root mass IF you cannot untagle it this time in the repot.


Keep it in bright shade for a week or two after that operation, until it shows signs of recovery and do NOT touch the foliage- let the tree decide what to keep.

Beautiful tree, you can still save it with minimal dieback.

So someone in my local club mentioned about putting some holes into the root mass as he felt like it might be root bound too. So I did do that with this tree and then that's when greater issues started. At first we thought it fungal as I had one black branch, which was removed. I only have topical fungicide and not systemic (can't find a smaller bag of granuals) I do try to keep it in a sunny place, it's very hard to know exactly how much sun it's getting now that summer is ending as I work 10 hours days. So I'm gone from 6:15 until about 5:30. I water daily when it's hot and sometimes every other now that it's been cooler and less humid.

While you did not mention root rot, if it is and I repot without root pruning the infected stuff does that make the repot void anyway? I do have straight inorganic soil.

Here is the other tree from same batch and care minus the root mass opening with a chopstick. And a pic of the weird black branch on the sick tree a couple months ago.

 

[akillas]

on both of these trees the soil is too dense..wouldnt be surprised if there is root rot as you say in the inside part of the root ball..at the very least their roots cant breathe, even with the holes.

It could be any number of things but in my opinion it all is within the soil. Just repot both into inorganic that aerates well and remove any rotten roots you might find.

When i said repot without pruning i meant dont prune/shape the healthy roots. Of course you should open the ball up gently and remove any decaying matter before it kills the tree.

Just dont continue like this and keep watering, they will most likely die.

 

[opus1]

The symptoms strongly suggest root rot, and the soil and root condition in the photos doesn’t look healthy either.
Although this is not the ideal season for repotting, leaving the tree as it is carries a high risk of decline.


I recommend removing the soil to check the roots, trimming away and cleaning any rotted sections, and then repotting into a well-draining mix such as akadama.
Applying a fungicide can also help with recovery.
Afterward, place the tree in partial shade with good airflow, and water only once the soil has dried out.

While the damaged foliage will not recover, if the roots survive, there is a chance the tree will regain its vigor next year.

 

[kyalune]

The symptoms strongly suggest root rot, and the soil and root condition in the photos doesn’t look healthy either.
Although this is not the ideal season for repotting, leaving the tree as it is carries a high risk of decline.


I recommend removing the soil to check the roots, trimming away and cleaning any rotted sections, and then repotting into a well-draining mix such as akadama.
Applying a fungicide can also help with recovery.
Afterward, place the tree in partial shade with good airflow, and water only once the soil has dried out.

While the damaged foliage will not recover, if the roots survive, there is a chance the tree will regain its vigor next year.

I am going to repot either today or tomorrow, any guidance as to a moving to a larger planter or a plastic bonsai training pot?

 

[Kanorin]

I am going to repot either today or tomorrow, any guidance as to a moving to a larger planter or a plastic bonsai training pot?

Hard to guess without knowing dimensions and what your overwintering scenarios are for those two options are (is one easier to overwinter with some protection than the other)?

 

[kyalune]

Heeling in against the North facing side of house under partial overhang so not a lot of sun exposure to have extreme temp flux, with tarp around the other 3 sides for wind protection. Able to get some snow. This spring pots were still frozen in when I wanted to bring them out as it thawed so slow. All my trees survived. even my tridents though it got way below temp, most likely due to root ball staying frozen and instead of freezing and thawing.

It's in probably a 1 gallon pot now. I'll make more space if I need it, I'll sacrifice the flower garden for overwintering the bonsai. The tree is probably 12 inches tall atm.

 

[kyalune]

UPDATE:

So I got a 10x10x6 inch pond basket and lined it with the plastic screen, since the soil mix I was using had some tiny perlite. My new mix is mostly course bonsai soil that I got from my visit to Wigerts in March (lava,pumice,akadama,I believe) mixed that in with my soil,pine bark perlite mix that I've been using for my small pre bonsai. Luckily between it all I had just enough.

Surprisingly the soil it was in looked to be a slate mix, but it was really compacted in the center. Any roots that didn't come away when teasing with my chop stick and rake I let stay.

Here are the photos. They're a bit dark since I was trying to keep the tree in the shade. The last photo is pretty much the only living foliage left at the bottom of the tree.



Also, I call BS on this hobby being serene. The redeeming factor is the satisfaction of watching them grow.

 

[Kanorin]

Good work. Protect this tree from any freezes in the next 4-5 weeks for sure (and do your best to protect it the best you can all winter long after that). Hinoki can take a while to recover from operations like this and tend to really throw in the towel if you do two operations in a short time-window. I'd advice no wiring, no bending, no scissors until at least June. If it's growing very vigorous, you could do some light cutbacks then and if it's kind of stagnant, wait until next fall for the next round of work.

 

[akillas]

I sincerely hope it makes it through the winter but if I had to bet I would say it’s almost dead.

By examining the new photos and comparing them to the first photos, i would say it decayed pretty fast for a sekka, and now the major operation(you had no choice) stressed it further
However don’t stop taking care of it, I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Good job. I'm hoping for the best. Just give it a little more protection this winter than you might otherwise.

This hobby IS serene... once you understand the rhythm and learn to think like a tree. You will never understand everything... the challenge is to understand enough.

 

[kyalune]

Sage words to keep at the forefront of my mind, since my adoration for big wild trees and the desire to be closer to nature brought me to start caring for small ones. I know to look after bonsai is to loose trees, but that's probably why I do find it so stressful. I suppose like all things, anxiety eases with knowledge and experience.