Elaeagnus pungens - Silverberry

[Dorian Fourie]

Hi All.

I have had this Silverberry for just over 10 years when I got it as a birthday present.

Sept 2008


In 2014, I tried to bend the left branch inwards but even after trunk splitting it, I realised that was a bad idea and the bend did not look natural at all.



Eventually in 2015 I realized that the branches were too straight and the only way to move forward was to cut them all back to one branch. I had a new bud develop lower down and I left that to grow to become a new branch for the canopy.



I have left it to grow to allow the right hand side branch to thicken up. I have also left a small branch to grow downwards on the right hand side.



I know this will never be a great bonsai but I want to develop it to the best possible options.

My questions are thus and would love to get some input into this species.

1. Do the leaves reduce?
2. Can one defoliate the tree - If that will assist in reducing leaf size.

Any other information would be greatly appreciated on this tree.

Thanks
D

 

[BrianBay9]

I have a couple I'm playing with keeping shohin size. The branches insist on growing absolutely straight so you either have to wire early or repeatedly cut back hard to get some movement. They do bud back very well. As for the leaf size, I cut off all the large leaves on a regular basis. Not sure yet if the leaves reduce or if I'm just seeing the get big more slowly. There's always more than enough foliage so I don't miss the large leaves I remove. Seems to tolerate root work very well.

 

[KeithE]

1. Do the leaves reduce?
2. Can one defoliate the tree - If that will assist in reducing leaf size.

Hi. Silverberry, also known as Gumi, is a greatly underappreciated and underutilized species. I was introduced to these by Kaede Bonsai and they are popular in Japan. The leaves on most varieties will naturally be over 2in and floppy, but they can be reduced. It may just be the photo angle, but your earlier pictures appear to have much smaller leaves than recent photos.
After the initial spring flush of growth, cut the new growth back hard to one or two leaves. Then cut most of the remaining leaves in half and completely remove the largest leaves. Sometimes they are fully defoliated for shows so that is also possible.
Your tree has great potential. If you compress it into a smaller tree, the base would make it very interesting.

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Hi. Silverberry, also known as Gumi, is a greatly underappreciated and underutilized species. I was introduced to these by Kaede Bonsai and they are popular in Japan. The leaves on most varieties will naturally be over 2in and floppy, but they can be reduced. It may just be the photo angle, but your earlier pictures appear to have much smaller leaves than recent photos.
After the initial spring flush of growth, cut the new growth back hard to one or two leaves. Then cut most of the remaining leaves in half and completely remove the largest leaves. Sometimes they are fully defoliated for shows so that is also possible.
Your tree has great potential. If you compress it into a smaller tree, the base would make it very interesting.

Thanks so much Keith. I have left it to grow so that could be the reason for the larger leaves. Slowly but surely I am trying to develop the right hand side trunk to get the thickness to look correct.

 

[Dorian Fourie]

I have a couple I'm playing with keeping shohin size. The branches insist on growing absolutely straight so you either have to wire early or repeatedly cut back hard to get some movement. They do bud back very well. As for the leaf size, I cut off all the large leaves on a regular basis. Not sure yet if the leaves reduce or if I'm just seeing the get big more slowly. There's always more than enough foliage so I don't miss the large leaves I remove. Seems to tolerate root work very well.

Thanks so much for the feedback. Appreciate it

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Mooi boemtjie!

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Mooi boemtjie!

Dankie

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

You have successfully added movement and interest to the right side. Nice. Now the left, that continues past the right is too heavy. Rather than growing the right side out, consider removing the left, past the right branch. Grow a new left side. This will unify the taper reduction, and compress overall size of the tree.

Just a thought.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Dankie

Ek het na jou facebook page gekyk en daar is regtig ń klomp oulikke boemtjies. Die doring boemtjie is mooi, watse soort is dit? Die een met die buddha stanbield onder...

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Ek het na jou facebook page gekyk en daar is regtig ń klomp oulikke boemtjies. Die doring boemtjie is mooi, watse soort is dit? Die een met die buddha stanbield onder...

Baie Dankie. Its a Black monkey Thorn. Senegalia Burkeii

 

[Dorian Fourie]

You have successfully added movement and interest to the right side. Nice. Now the left, that continues past the right is too heavy. Rather than growing the right side out, consider removing the left, past the right branch. Grow a new left side. This will unify the taper reduction, and compress overall size of the tree.

Just a thought.

Thanks so much for the feedback Leo

Very good idea. Never thought of that. Maybe I should cut it back to remove all the leave and see where the best new bud develops and use that.

Thoughts?

 

[defra]

Its on the right path i think Nice work

I got one too
Leaves reduce well enough
@JudyB has a nice shohin


Heres the thread on my elaeagnus maybe there is helpfull info in the thread
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/elaeagnus-ebbingei.28365/#post-490430

Heres a pic of a bigger leave and a new way smaller leaf as example:

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Thanks so much for the feedback Leo

Very good idea. Never thought of that. Maybe I should cut it back to remove all the leave and see where the best new bud develops and use that.

Thoughts?

It is springtime in your area, so yes, I would do the cut back now. It should respond well to defoliation, though I don't have much Elaeagnus experience. It looks quite healthy right now. Go for it.

 

[defra]

Oh i forgot to mention that you probably will notice that they heal up wounds very well

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Its on the right path i think Nice work

I got one too
Leaves reduce well enough
@JudyB has a nice shohin


Heres the thread on my elaeagnus maybe there is helpfull info in the thread
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/elaeagnus-ebbingei.28365/#post-490430

Heres a pic of a bigger leave and a new way smaller leaf as example:
View attachment 212305

Thanks so much for the info. Definitely going to start work on getting the leaf size smaller

 

[Dorian Fourie]

It is springtime in your area, so yes, I would do the cut back now. It should respond well to defoliation, though I don't have much Elaeagnus experience. It looks quite healthy right now. Go for it.

Thanks

Will keep you updated

 

[KeithE]

Thanks so much for the feedback Leo

Very good idea. Never thought of that. Maybe I should cut it back to remove all the leave and see where the best new bud develops and use that.

Thoughts?

Just keep in mind, defoliation is typically reserved for finished/matured trees or those being prepared to show. If you would like to continue developing/building the tree's structure, defoliation may hinder your efforts. But if you are only interested in smaller leaves, defoliation is definitely a good strategy.

 

[defra]

Just keep in mind, defoliation is typically reserved for finished/matured trees or those being prepared to show. If you would like to continue developing/building the tree's structure, defoliation may hinder your efforts. But if you are only interested in smaller leaves, defoliation is definitely a good strategy.

It also helps in building ramification right

 

[KeithE]

It also helps in building ramification right

Full defoliation might encourage back budding. Certainly won't hurt a healthy tree, but I have never done it so I cannot confirm or recommend. As you saw with your own Elaegnus, they will back bud nicely after a simple pruning. Next spring I will defoliate my own tree and report the results.

 

[defra]

Full defoliation might encourage back budding. Certainly won't hurt a healthy tree, but I have never done it so I cannot confirm or recommend. As you saw with your own Elaegnus, they will back bud nicely after a simple pruning. Next spring I will defoliate my own tree and report the results.

Yes ive noticed
Mines still in trunk and nebari building for at least the first 5 year i think for sure so leave reduction is for later
But i mean defoliation in general improves ramification i tought right?