Donald Trump.

Status
Not open for further replies.
I can see that to some extent. If they had no rights, I could go round up some and do what I will.
 
Today Trump tweeted that "the media is the enemy of the American people." meanwhile he's holding a rally in Florida tomorrow. Why does a sitting president need to hold a rally?

you guys know I'm no fan of trump, but even I thought the "trump is a fascist" cries we're overblown. I'm not so sure now...
 
If you think protests are nonsense I got some real bad news for you regarding the founding of our country....:(
 
watchndsky said:

Pelosi tells Texan resident his community's experience with raper, murder, beheadings etc is just "one border experience"....
Click to expand...

Thing is with this, I get the point - there are bad people, sure. But if you're gonna use that to rationalise building a f**k off wall to try and keep people out (it wont), then by the same merit you could suggest that because of the murderers in attacks like Sandy Hook etc that you enforce much tighter gun laws with more thorough background checks and all that kinda thing? Gonna tell the victims families that their kids getting killed was 'just one experience' of idiots with guns?
 
@GrimLore do you have one that says don't grow up and grab girls by the pussy?
That recording was some funny shit. Might be worth it if you need furniture!
 
Cattwooduk said:
Thing is with this, I get the point - there are bad people, sure. But if you're gonna use that to rationalise building a f**k off wall to try and keep people out (it wont), then by the same merit you could suggest that because of the murderers in attacks like Sandy Hook etc that you enforce much tighter gun laws with more thorough background checks and all that kinda thing? Gonna tell the victims families that their kids getting killed was 'just one experience' of idiots with guns?
Click to expand...


ironic you bring that up - have you heard the leftist liberals (the same lady in the video) after sandy hook? demonizing every ar15 owner even though they are generally just "one experience" and are rarely ever used to commit gun violence ?

the same group that claims they want to keep big govt out of your life, wants to tell women what they can and cannot do with their body.

then, the other group that says the government has no right to tell a woman what to do with her body, wants to control every other aspect of your life. its bullshit.



but to youre point, they arent quite the same. theres a huge hypocrisy in the media, our politicians and in the citizenry itself.

guns
-laws are ALREADY in place to prevent a violence and no one calls the aclu when these laws are enforced. the nra doesnt come to your defense as a disenfranchised minority whos a victim of society - they support the laws we have in place.
-those who would be impacted by breaking the law - take following it VERY seriously (sellers/manufacturers keep meticulous records of every weapon sold)
-suggesting that we need more gun laws, bans etc - doesnt lead to public outcries of racism and bigotry. you dont see second amendment supporters rioting, shutting down speeches at Berkley and these are rights that are guaranteed under the constitution for us citizens. illegal immigrants are not citizens.
-the media over-reports criminal activity involving guns (despite larger causes of death such as alcohol which go ignored) - while largely under-reporting legitimate defensive gun use
-the government intentionally misleads the public with "loophole" myths that do not exist - with most citizens largely unaware of the current laws and regulations already on the books. i routinely have new gunowners who want to argue with me when they cant find out that they CANNOT buy guns off the internet and have to jump through the hoops they must go through to legally own a gun.
-background checks are fully owned and vetted by the govt - if we trust the govt in that regard, why would anyone object to the govt fully vetting folks coming into our country and requiring them to play by the same rules. either you think the govt is competent or you dont - i dont see how one can trust them for one and not the other.

immigration
- has laws in place that are routinely IGNORED and not enforced (they even coined a term for these "sactuary cities" . they turn a blind eye to illegals, and they wear the title with pride)
- discussing the "threat of gun violence" makes for great headlines (despite data showing the actual likelihood of an occurrence) - but discussing immigration with concerns of terrorism, drug cartels, or wanting to enforce the laws makes you a racist, homophobic, paranoid, xenophobe.
- the media doesnt have "anniversary" stories for drug, immigration or related "tragedies" but a tearful conference is held every year on every major news outlet for sandy hook victims (while chicago has as many victims every week that no one seems to care anything about for some odd reason)


its bullshit. i guarantee you no one out there crying racism/bigotry etc, is sleeping with their doors wide open tonight. home alarms, smoke alarms, security cams, door locks - even seatbelts are all items used to make us safer and no one flips out for people using them to ensure their safety. thats all that the vast majority of people who support increasing/enforcing border security and immigration laws want- the security to know that the bad element is being kept out. all this crap about racism and bigotry is just leftist propaganda to appeal to their base, media sensationalizing stories for monetary gain, or illegals who have something to lose because they are taking advantage and didnt play by the rules in the first place.

are there some racists out there there who just dont want to see another mexican - sure. but they are increasingly rare these days. we dont have a problem with canadians - but i guarantee you we would be having the same discussions if we had the same problems from them as we do mexico. because it isnt about race.

while politicians, lobbies, and the media play games with the smoke and mirrors - more drugs are coming through, more illegals are coming through and more people are dying in chicago everyday.
 
watchndsky said:
ironic you bring that up - have you heard the leftist liberals (the same lady in the video) after sandy hook? demonizing every ar15 owner even though they are generally just "one experience" and are rarely ever used to commit gun violence ?

the same group that claims they want to keep big govt out of your life, wants to tell women what they can and cannot do with their body.

then, the other group that says the government has no right to tell a woman what to do with her body, wants to control every other aspect of your life. its bullshit.



but to youre point, they arent quite the same. theres a huge hypocrisy in the media, our politicians and in the citizenry itself.

guns
-laws are ALREADY in place to prevent a violence and no one calls the aclu when these laws are enforced. the nra doesnt come to your defense as a disenfranchised minority whos a victim of society - they support the laws we have in place.
-those who would be impacted by breaking the law - take following it VERY seriously (sellers/manufacturers keep meticulous records of every weapon sold)
-suggesting that we need more gun laws, bans etc - doesnt lead to public outcries of racism and bigotry. you dont see second amendment supporters rioting, shutting down speeches at Berkley and these are rights that are guaranteed under the constitution for us citizens. illegal immigrants are not citizens.
-the media over-reports criminal activity involving guns (despite larger causes of death such as alcohol which go ignored) - while largely under-reporting legitimate defensive gun use
-the government intentionally misleads the public with "loophole" myths that do not exist - with most citizens largely unaware of the current laws and regulations already on the books. i routinely have new gunowners who want to argue with me when they cant find out that they CANNOT buy guns off the internet and have to jump through the hoops they must go through to legally own a gun.
-background checks are fully owned and vetted by the govt - if we trust the govt in that regard, why would anyone object to the govt fully vetting folks coming into our country and requiring them to play by the same rules. either you think the govt is competent or you dont - i dont see how one can trust them for one and not the other.

immigration
- has laws in place that are routinely IGNORED and not enforced (they even coined a term for these "sactuary cities" . they turn a blind eye to illegals, and they wear the title with pride)
- discussing the "threat of gun violence" makes for great headlines (despite data showing the actual likelihood of an occurrence) - but discussing immigration with concerns of terrorism, drug cartels, or wanting to enforce the laws makes you a racist, homophobic, paranoid, xenophobe.
- the media doesnt have "anniversary" stories for drug, immigration or related "tragedies" but a tearful conference is held every year on every major news outlet for sandy hook victims (while chicago has as many victims every week that no one seems to care anything about for some odd reason)


its bullshit. i guarantee you no one out there crying racism/bigotry etc, is sleeping with their doors wide open tonight. home alarms, smoke alarms, security cams, door locks - even seatbelts are all items used to make us safer and no one flips out for people using them to ensure their safety. thats all that the vast majority of people who support increasing/enforcing border security and immigration laws want- the security to know that the bad element is being kept out. all this crap about racism and bigotry is just leftist propaganda to appeal to their base, media sensationalizing stories for monetary gain, or illegals who have something to lose because they are taking advantage and didnt play by the rules in the first place.

are there some racists out there there who just dont want to see another mexican - sure. but they are increasingly rare these days. we dont have a problem with canadians - but i guarantee you we would be having the same discussions if we had the same problems from them as we do mexico. because it isnt about race.

while politicians, lobbies, and the media play games with the smoke and mirrors - more drugs are coming through, more illegals are coming through and more people are dying in chicago everyday.
Click to expand...
Amen brother
 
watchndsky said:
ironic you bring that up - have you heard the leftist liberals (the same lady in the video) after sandy hook? demonizing every ar15 owner even though they are generally just "one experience" and are rarely ever used to commit gun violence ?
Click to expand...
That is literally the point I was making how ever in-concisely. I was making a general statement that it IS easy to point to some large issue and break it down to say 'that's an isolated one off so don't let it tarnish all the other experiences', you can use that from either side of the argument in hand.

watchndsky said:
the same group that claims they want to keep big govt out of your life, wants to tell women what they can and cannot do with their body.

then, the other group that says the government has no right to tell a woman what to do with her body, wants to control every other aspect of your life. its bullshit.
Click to expand...

I don't know which group this is pointing at, but I'd assume anti-abortion groups are the ones telling women what they can and cannot do with their bodies?
Don't really know what point you're trying to make here either, besides overall hypocrisy, in which case yes it's all bullshit.

As for the gun laws etc, I don't even pretend to know enough about them or how any of it works in the US. The thing which has always utterly baffled me though is that people seem shocked by how many die in places like Chicago as you say, when the US has the highest rate of guns per capita in the world. Having more guns in circulation than there are people is going to cause problems regardless of how sound guns laws are in some states. And they aren't equal in all states which may be part of the issue, I wouldn't know but I'd hazard a guess.

The other angle to see the drugs issue from is asking why the government never seems to want to treat it as a health issue the same as any other addiction. The 'war on drugs' which is reinvigorated every few years does nothing but exacerbate the problems with gangland killings, gun crime in general, not to mention being probably THE direct cause of the US having 25% of the worlds prison population (3 strikes, mandatory minimums, plea bargains etc largely developed to clamp down on drug abuse).

Also my post which you quoted didn't mention race once but it pops up in yours several times. I didn't say any of it was an issue of race.
 
Im not interested in getting into an explanation of why gun laws are ineffective or unconstitutional . I argued my points many pages back. If you are really interested in hearing a us citizens perspective and why the data doesnt support gun control lowering crime rates its in previous posts. I suspect you arent but most posts ive made in this thread relate to gun laws, crime rates, and im always more than happy to answer any questions as to what the laws cover (although they do differ in different states most in my area are at least knowledgeable in the concepts, if not which states particular laws and policies may exist.)

As for you not mentioning race.... Thanks... im always glad to see someone who doesn't see color. But the sad truth is that its being used by both politicians and media outlets to pander to their base and fuel ratings. So its hard to discuss the immigration issue without mentioning the role race does or does not play in the current climate.

Its like referring to trumps policies as a ban on muslims rather an immigration policy. The way news is framed has a large part in the interpretation of the content. The ban does not include other muslim countries but when its portayed as a ban on muslims then a frenzy ensues and accusations of racism and islamaphobia inevitably become part of the conversation.

I do agree with you though that a large f*ck you wall isnt particularly helpful or practical. But its such a drastic change from prior admins that im actually glad to hear its on the table.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom