Donald Trump.

[Paradox]

I do get that Sandy...it's just something my grandpa used to say. That you never stop paying your place off. Even when it's paid for.

It's just something he's said many times as I grew up...that you never truly own your home. That upon writing a check for taxes...makes me think of his statement.

With all due respect to you grandfather, I disagree with that premise.

I don't see my property taxes as a rent or another form of mortgage I must pay to have my home. I see it more like a fee to the town that pays for and provides the services mentioned. The fee is based on the value of my property rather than some other metric.

 

[Cadillactaste]

With all due respect to you grandfather, I disagree with that premise.

I don't see my property taxes as a rent or another form of mortgage I must pay to have my home. I see it more like a fee to the town that pays for and provides the services mentioned. The fee is based on the value of my property rather than some other metric.

That's fine...you are allowed your opinion. But, if you hear something growing up as a child...even if you grasp the importance of it as an adult. You still tend to hear the ones words ring in your ear. He had a sizable farm land...property tax time...you can take it to the bank those words were issued from his mouth. Just as when he swore...he stuck his tongue between his teeth to muddle the words in the presence of us grandkids...he had his quirks...doesn't mean I loved him any less. Just as with family our views are night and day different with some things. At the end of the day, we're family.

 

[eugene brown]

That's fine...you are allowed your opinion. But, if you hear something growing up as a child...even if you grasp the importance of it as an adult. You still tend to hear the ones words ring in your ear. He had a sizable farm land...property tax time...you can take it to the bank those words were issued from his mouth. Just as when he swore...he stuck his tongue between his teeth to muddle the words in the presence of us grandkids...he had his quirks...doesn't mean I loved him any less. Just as with family our views are night and day different with some things. At the end of the day, we're family.

Your grandfather was a wise person. He sounds like my grandfather except my grandfather wouldn't hold back on the cuss words. The problem is your grandfather could have lost his farm if he didn't pay his taxes. It's the same with me on my house. It's paid off but I can still lose it to the government if I don't pay.

I understand that some of the taxes goes toward services that I need or will help the community. I wish we had more control over where our tax dollars would go.

 

[Paradox]

Your grandfather was a wise person. He sounds like my grandfather except my grandfather wouldn't hold back on the cuss words. The problem is your grandfather could have lost his farm if he didn't pay his taxes. It's the same with me on my house. It's paid off but I can still lose it to the government if I don't pay.

I understand that some of the taxes goes toward services that I need or will help the community. I wish we had more control over where our tax dollars would go.

I could lose my house if I don't pay too, just like everyone else.

You do have some control in who you put in office.

The thing with us having control is that alot of people would disagree about where that money should be spent. What is important to you isn't necessarily important to someone else. We have to trust the people running the government to decide.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Your grandfather was a wise person. He sounds like my grandfather except my grandfather wouldn't hold back on the cuss words. The problem is your grandfather could have lost his farm if he didn't pay his taxes. It's the same with me on my house. It's paid off but I can still lose it to the government if I don't pay.

I understand that some of the taxes goes toward services that I need or will help the community. I wish we had more control over where our tax dollars would go.

Oh my grandfather rarely swore...if he did. It was over something that really was for good reason no doubt. But...that he bit his tongue amused us. Because we still understood the garbled words to a degree. I would imagine...owning a farm...you paid high taxes. Because of all the land. I mean...I know the money goes to pay to keep our government running. But...yeah, I still get where he was coming from to a degree...I'm fine with ones disagreeing. And it's an amusing sort of memory at his stance...which in a point...we were so thrilled to have our home paid off. Was a bit more surprised at the cost of property taxes...but...it is what it is. And it does remind me of my grandpa. He was a great guy...taught us a lot...he was my father figure growing up. Took me coon hunting...MAN WAS THAT AN EXPERIENCE! Got sent home with my brothers over a ghost coon. He taught me the secret of a not so sloppy sloppy Joe...(Hamburg with ketchup. Which I refused to eat until I learned of the *looking over my shoulder as I type to make sure no one sees me* not so sloppy...sloppy Joe. )Taught me to save my money...when the tooth fairy money was burning a hole in my pocket...by gasping that I had spent special tagged tooth fairy funds in the past...when you have to buy your teeth back when you get old...and pulled out his dentures...then sat me down trying to figure out if I could still swing a full set. Lol he was a great man...but stubborn and could argue black was white if he so felt it was fact.

 

[AlainK]

All of the answers to solve all of the problems are right in front of everyone to see; it just takes the right people to get off their ass and do what needs to be done, even if it goes against "the party line" or personal interests or beliefs... sometimes it's a personal change, sometimes it's a governmental change.

Aye.

But recent events have shown that for a lot of people, or at least for a majority of people who are supposed to represent the people, "Ignorance is Strength".

The earth is flat.
It was created in 6 days. (Do you realize Amerikans that it's what your new vice-president thinks? Oh my, how can millions of people elect such a stupid bigot?)
WASPS can rest on Sunday, the slaves that have not expelled or killed yet will do the job for them.

Good luck for the future my Americans friends. Best wishes for women, and those who don't have a ridiculous hairdo and orange skin, or couldn't afford to buy a European puppet to play with and grab her... attention. You will now enter a land of milk and honey, a land that is great again

 

[Cadillactaste]

Wow...thought I was able to excuse most difference of opinion, and I find myself trying to be fare with all...but, I find it's not worth reading something that is mocking my beliefs. Don't believe it if you wish...but don't mock my God. Good riddance ! I now have an actual name on my ignore list...and...I feel a weight off my shoulders knowing I won't read any more of this ones thoughts...

 

[michaelj]

That said, I do believe we need some immigration reform. Rounding up and mass deportation of non whites and ripping law abiding families apart is not what I would consider reform.

But they deport white guys, too. Even famous, wealthy ones.

 

[Cadillactaste]

@Paradox your comment...have you not heard? Last I heard they were only gathering up illegal immigrants who had a criminal past...

Anyone...has this changed!?! If so...I stand corrected.

Paradox said: ↑
That said, I do believe we need some immigration reform. Rounding up and mass deportation of non whites and ripping law abiding families apart is not what I would consider reform.

 

[Paradox]

@Paradox your comment...have you not heard? Last I heard they were only gathering up illegal immigrants who had a criminal past...

If it is limited to that, I am fine with it because I do feel that anyone that has engaged in criminal activity (theft, murder, drug dealing, etc) should be sent back.
My comfort goes away if the practice of tearing a family apart and deporting a mother while leaving her U.S. born child(ren) here as wards of the state becomes commonplace.

There was a story recently of a man now in his 40s or 50s that was born here but his father was not a citizen. His father, who was here illegally but otherwise did not commit a crime, was sent back to Mexico and he never saw him again. That, IMO is wrong and yes I do understand the implications of what I am saying.

 

[AlainK]

Wow...thought I was able to excuse most difference of opinion, and I find myself trying to be fare with all...but

My comfort goes away if the practice of tearing a family apart and deporting a mother while leaving her U.S. born child(ren) here as wards of the state becomes commonplace.

OK, just try this for a minute: don't grab pussies, don't build walls that anyway will be no use, don't hate people from a different place, and culture, don't shoot anyone who doesn't look like you.

Not everyone can look like an old fat soft balding man with artificial colour of skin and ridiculous hairdo: you probably didn't have a daddy that you inherited billions from, even if you claim tyo be a self-made man. But so many people believed it : wow! I just can't believe a majority of USonians are that stupid.

 

[Paradox]

@AlainK
I am confused as to why you quoted me?
Where in anything I said indicates to you that I hate people from a different place?
I dislike anyone that commits murder, rape, theft, drug dealing no matter where they are from.
Want to be here and follow the laws and not cause a problem, I am fine with you.

As I have said in the past, I have a Hispanic family living across the street from me.
They dont break laws and they dont cause problems. I dont have a problem with them in the least.

 

[Random User]

... these political threads are going to ruin this bonsai forum even if the members don't come here. The "residuals" will, (in time) spill over into the ordinary threads; just sayin'.

 

[Paradox]

... these political threads are going to ruin this bonsai forum even if the members don't come here. The "residuals" will, (in time) spill over into the ordinary threads; just sayin'.

If you never experienced the Karaoke Bar, you have no idea what used to happen with political discussions.
This one and the few others going on right now have been relatively tame compared to those days.

 

[Cadillactaste]

... these political threads are going to ruin this bonsai forum even if the members don't come here. The "residuals" will, (in time) spill over into the ordinary threads; just sayin'.

I don't feel that way...I've always been one a firm believer we all were made different so that we wouldn't live in a boring world. That said...we should have difference of opinion to some degree. Even folk who agree on specific things...on others differ of their opinion. It's what makes having friends/aquaintences more enjoyable.

And if one actually rubs you the wrong way...and you feel it could "spill over" even if you choose to avoid a thread...or...you wish to still go to the thread...and not deal with the individual. You put them on the ignore list. And...they disappear...it's quite nice actually. Much nicer than the old days where you could see the one had left messages. This one is more discrete...and it's not in the open thread with their name. But...absolutely no mention of them as you read down. Pretty cool actually. So never feel that way. If you feel that about a particular person...toss them on the list. That's what it's there for. I know a few who have names on a list. I put a few trolls on it back in the day. But they are gone...so the list went empty for a good time. Just don't let someone eat your lunch...it's not worth it. Toss them to the list and enjoy the forum.

 

[Cadillactaste]

If you never experienced the Karaoke Bar, you have no idea what used to happen with political discussions.
This one and the few others going on right now have been relatively tame compared to those days.

That was before my time...but I've heard mention of it.

 

[M. Frary]

It was created in 6 days

No it wasn't. If you believe the bible it was only one.
And if you believe the bible Adam and Eve were the first people. But when Cain whacked Abel he went to live among some other people. Where the hell did they come from?
My mother in law says she voted for Trump because she believes someone will kill him and then Pence will be president. A few people around here are saying that's why they voted for Trump.

 

[Maloghurst]

I wouldn't call the past 8 years trickle down especially with the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, Obamacare and other legislation like dodd/frank. I agree with bonsai nut and chansen I that there's more to wage stagnation than tax policies such as, how has globalization affect the American worker and how has it suppressed wages.

Are you suggesting that we've had trickle down economics for the past 8 years?

And what happened in the 1970's? The end of the Vietnam war. Normalization of relations with China. Banishment of princely rule in India. Industrialization and infrastructure development in the Philippines. And underlying it all... the explosion in the value of oil, which increased Indonesia's per capita GDP 545% between 1970 and 1980. People need to wake up and understand the US is not the center of the world, far from it. We can claim leadership in many things, but population and unskilled labor are NOT two of them.

View attachment 123337

I wasn't saying that a fair tax plan would fix wage growth necessarily. This branch of the thread came from my posting of Donald trumps proposed tax plan( from his own website. The tax thing is just a symptom of the larger problem of wealth division. Regulation of big business and Wall Street is also part of it.
1. Obama barely changed the tax cut from bush. He only raised the taxes on people who earned more then 470,000 per year. He raised it from 35-40 for those people.
2. Highest tax rate was 70% until the 1980s when Reagan introduced supplyside or trickle down economics (less regulation and lower taxes)
The highest rate has fluctuated since then from 32-40%.
3. The weatlthiest people pay an effective tax rate lower then the middle class,(which has always been about the same.) as low as 15%
4. Donald trumps plan is to lower the top rate to 33% and raise the lowest to 12%. Everyone else pays 25%.
This is the basis of supply side and is has not worked in 35 years.
Ceos, executives, Wall Street bums has increased their wages exponentially since the 80s.
Production has increased, they just pocket the money.
It needs to be regulated and the more you earn the more you should actually pay in taxes. The less you earn, the less you pay.
You can't just rely on the good will of man to do what is fair and right.
There are ceos that earn 1000x more then there workers. Wtf
Wall Street? Housing crisis? Bailout? No one in jail for that? They still are making billions on the American people. They do whatever they want.

And we are supposed to jump for joy over a temporary decrease in mortgage percentage?
Electronics always drop in price once they've been around a while.

 

[10-brink]

So far all of Trump's picks for positions have been very right wing. It's gonna be a long four years.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Some facts about Federal income tax to help the discussion along. Quote: "The top 0.1% of families pay the equivalent of 39.2% and the bottom 20% have negative tax rates." Note we're talking about Federal income tax only - without including State income or property taxes. Hopefully no one is arguing the someone with a $20 million mansion is paying lower property taxes than someone with a $150,000 house.

And please no religion. I am trying a cautious experiment by allowing people to talk about the election, but I will edit religion discussion because it is absolutely, completely pointless to debate beliefs. I could believe the world was created yesterday, with everything and everyone in place, and there isn't a thing anyone could say to prove me wrong.