Donald Trump.

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It amazes me that I get bitched at by the admin for making fun of Vance, but Vance is allowed to just spew word vomit at people every day. Stop being such a shit head @sorce
 
michaelj said:
The reason it's called "faith" is because religious beliefs don't really depend upon rational or critical thinking.
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ianb said:
It's the only one that is...so yep
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And what do you two find to be a more rational explanation that is not based on faith?


Oh wait.

You rely on faith as much as I, possibly even more so. You see, all beliefs [religion, or lack there of] depend on some sort of faith. You cannot deny that, even though you do so; likely to comfort yourself because you know deep inside you are wrong. You dont want to give up living for yourself and only yourself.


But we shall all find out soon enough, now wont we?

Did that make your stomach drop?


Good.

The difference is, some will be ready and others will sadly not.
 
JoeR said:
And what do you two find to be a more rational explanation that is not based on faith?


Oh wait.

You rely on faith as much as I, possibly even more so. You see, all beliefs [religion, or lack there of] depend on some sort of faith. You cannot deny that, even though you do so; likely to comfort yourself because you know deep inside you are wrong. You dont want to give up living for yourself and only yourself.


But we shall all find out soon enough, now wont we?

Did that make your stomach drop?


Good.

The difference is, some will be ready and others will sadly not.
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Well I won't speak for MichaelJ as I'm sure he doesn't agree with my outlook but...

Rational explanation for what? We live, we die, in the end we're all just wormfood....or stardust for you poets/Sagan fans. These are things we know anything else is just speculation/made up shit.

Ooooh the threat of something after we die, now that's convincing, you got me, sign me up. FYI that was absolutely dripping with sarcasm.
 
ianb said:
Well I won't speak for MichaelJ as I'm sure he doesn't agree with my outlook but...

Rational explanation for what? We live, we die, in the end we're all just wormfood....or stardust for you poets/Sagan fans. These are things we know anything else is just speculation/made up shit.

Ooooh the threat of something after we die, now that's convincing, you got me, sign me up. FYI that was absolutely dripping with sarcasm.
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And in all this, you still have avoided my question.


Funny.
 
carp said:
It amazes me that I get bitched at by the admin for making fun of Vance, but Vance is allowed to just spew word vomit at people every day. Stop being such a shit head @sorce
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Look... if you have an issue with someone's opinion, debate the opinion. Use facts if you want, or use opinion, or just agree to disagree. The reason you got "bitched at" was because you took a photo of another member and used it as your avatar in a derisive way. Attack the idea... not the person. I would hope if you and Vance bumped into each other at a bonsai convention you would be able to sit down over beers and laugh. That's my hope, at least.
 
ianb said:
Well I won't speak for MichaelJ as I'm sure he doesn't agree with my outlook but...

Rational explanation for what? We live, we die, in the end we're all just wormfood....or stardust for you poets/Sagan fans. These are things we know anything else is just speculation/made up shit.

Ooooh the threat of something after we die, now that's convincing, you got me, sign me up. FYI that was absolutely dripping with sarcasm.
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Ian gets all feisty when his chojubai is doing well. :)
 
JoeR said:
And in all this, you still have avoided my question.


Funny.
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You mean this question: And what do you two find to be a more rational explanation that is not based on faith?

Again I ask rational explanation for what?
 
Bonsai Nut said:
Look... if you have an issue with someone's opinion, debate the opinion. Use facts if you want, or use opinion, or just agree to disagree. The reason you got "bitched at" was because you took a photo of another member and used it as your avatar in a derisive way. Attack the idea... not the person. I would hope if you and Vance bumped into each other at a bonsai convention you would be able to sit down over beers and laugh. That's my hope, at least.
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You know what, you have what we used to call "the ass at me."
 
carp said:
You know what, you have what we used to call "the ass at me."
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I don't. I've got nothing against you. I think you would benefit from worrying less about other people, and more about yourself. And that isn't intended to mean anything more than what it means. I would happily buy you a beer any time you are in town, or show you my bonsai, or hit bonsai nurseries together. I actually may think more highly of you... than you do of yourself :)
 
Bonsai Nut said:
Oh oh.... I'd go out and check your chojubai if I were you :)

By the way... did you notice the "Vote Trump" sticker I placed on your bumper on Saturday? :)
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Hah, yeah I was giving Si stress about his Carson sticker. The more people think Trump has a chance the more likely we are to get a Democrat so bring it on:eek:
 
JoeR said:
And what do you two find to be a more rational explanation that is not based on faith?
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Explanation for what?

JoeR said:
You rely on faith as much as I, possibly even more so. You see, all beliefs [religion, or lack there of] depend on some sort of faith.
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That's certainly not true of agnosticism, nor, really, of atheism. Agnosticism relies in no way on faith. Very much to the contrary, agnostics simply decide to draw no conclusions without some rational basis to form one. To an agnostic, believing in any particular God, among the thousands of Gods who have been proposed over the millennia, is, without any evidence, no more rational or irrational than believing that a particular random named Jorik lived in a village in some random place 18,000 years ago. Could have happened. There's no reason necessarily to disbelieve it, but without evidence that someone named Jorik lived in that village 18,000 years ago, there isn't really a basis for believing it was true, either.

Now, you might think that the evidence for the God you believe in is a lot more plausible than the evidence that might exist for old Jorik, but an agnostic doesn't find your evidence persuasive, for largely the same reasons you don't find the evidence of other religions persuasive.

As for myself, I'm a Catholic, but my faith has really been devastated by the child sex scandals. I do operate more on reason than on blind faith, and that threw me for a loop, because one of the more egregious child sex predators was a priest that I absolutely adored as a kid. When I turned 16 and got a car, I had him bless it with holy water and all that (I totaled it and scarred my face for life in that car six months later). Finding out that he'd been buggering little dudes my age when I was 9 was devastating. It destroyed the whole underpinning of my faith, which was, essentially, the Invisible Hand theory. The non-existence of the Invisible Hand was pretty much proven to my satisfaction, and that means that everything I relied on in my faith was shown to be unreliable. I feel cheated, because I want to believe, but my faith is just not what it used to be.

That, and the Book of Job. Reading the Bible from cover to cover, especially the Book of Job, diminished my faith every time.

Bonsai Nut said:
Rumor is, that when Ian's chojubai isn't doing well, he'll even pray to George Bush :)
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There are no atheists in foxholes, and there are no atheists during an emergency repot.
 
Seriously admin, why do you have rules that only apply tl
Bonsai Nut said:
I don't. I've got nothing against you. I think you would benefit from worrying less about other people, and more about yourself. And that isn't intended to mean anything more than what it means. I would happily buy you a beer any time you are in town, or show you my bonsai, or hit bonsai nurseries together. I actually may think more highly of you... than you do of yourself :)
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You didn't recognize how tougne in asscheek that statement was
 
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