Does akadama really break down?

[nathanbs]

I don't use soil and Akadama is not soil either way. If what I use works for me I am content and feel no need to complicate things. I view this experience as "relaxing" and do everything I can to keep things simple so I can relax and enjoy rather then hurry and worry.

Grimmy

you know what I mean when I refer to soil dont be silly. Additionally its ok if you are happy with what you use but you choose to participate in these debates as if there's something to prove or maybe there is some doubt whether theres something better? If I were as content as you say you are, then why bother wasting your time in these discussions?

 

[GrimLore]

you know what I mean when I refer to soil dont be silly. Additionally its ok if you are happy with what you use but you choose to participate in these debates as if there's something to prove or maybe there is some doubt whether theres something better? If I were as content as you say you are, then why bother wasting your time in these discussions?

Honest I do not know what you use and I do know that in my climate Akadama would probably break down to mush like terracotta and I should have been more clear on that. I use inorganic substrate that does not break down such as pumice. If I "think" a specimen wants even further water retention on my water schedule I feed more as it gets flushed more often. I was not debating just pointing out terracotta and akadama are not suitable where I am. If I do as I do it requires less repotting so FOR ME it works well. In combination with my water and fertilization routine it makes no sense for me to even experiment. BTW you forgot to PM me shipping details

Grimmy

 

[Adair M]

Let's go thru this one more time...

Akadama does break down over time. That's one of it's attributes! (Which means it a good thing!)

When fresh, the akadama in the soil mix provides lots of air space between particles. And it holds some, but not a lot of water. Dryer soil (within reason) encourages roots to grow, to seek out water and nutrients. As time passes, the akadama breaks down, the roots have grown into it, and have multiplied. Leaves (needles, whatever) are growing, and demand more water. Broken down akadama retains more water than fresh akadama, so the water is there for the growing plant.

Also, while akadama does retain water, it's not organic. Which means it won't rot. A material like pine bark will rot. As organic material rots, it consumes nitrogen, robbing the tree this nutrient. Akadama, doesn't since it's not organic.

In short, akadama changes it's structure (from balls to being more like sand) as the root system of the tree changes from pruned to ramified. When completely broken down, it slows the root growth, because it stays wetter longer. Roots don't grow as much when they're constantly wet.

So, "finished trees" will do fine in akadama since we are really just trying to maintain the style/shape they're in. Trees can often go several years between repottings when they are in akadama.

Younger, developing trees will benefit from more frequent repottings into fresh akadama, to stimulate rapid root growth, and vegetative growth.

Truly, akadama is wonderful stuff for bonsai. It's almost as if it were designed to be bonsai soil.

 

[nathanbs]

Let's go thru this one more time...

Akadama does break down over time. That's one of it's attributes! (Which means it a good thing!)

When fresh, the akadama in the soil mix provides lots of air space between particles. And it holds some, but not a lot of water. Dryer soil (within reason) encourages roots to grow, to seek out water and nutrients. As time passes, the akadama breaks down, the roots have grown into it, and have multiplied. Leaves (needles, whatever) are growing, and demand more water. Broken down akadama retains more water than fresh akadama, so the water is there for the growing plant.

Also, while akadama does retain water, it's not organic. Which means it won't rot. A material like pine bark will rot. As organic material rots, it consumes nitrogen, robbing the tree this nutrient. Akadama, doesn't since it's not organic.

In short, akadama changes it's structure (from balls to being more like sand) as the root system of the tree changes from pruned to ramified. When completely broken down, it slows the root growth, because it stays wetter longer. Roots don't grow as much when they're constantly wet.

So, "finished trees" will do fine in akadama since we are really just trying to maintain the style/shape they're in. Trees can often go several years between repottings when they are in akadama.

Younger, developing trees will benefit from more frequent repottings into fresh akadama, to stimulate rapid root growth, and vegetative growth.

Truly, akadama is wonderful stuff for bonsai. It's almost as if it were designed to be bonsai soil.

I think or at least hope that most are up to speed on this info but its nice to read it anyways for a change. I think the complaint or argument is that it breaks down in one winter for the folks in the north east, N. Europe , etc. which is too fast for the developing root system. A little ahead of schedule you could say

 

[GrimLore]

I think or at least hope that most are up to speed on this info but its nice to read it anyways for a change. I think the complaint or argument is that it breaks down in one winter for the folks in the north east, N. Europe , etc. which is too fast for the developing root system. A little ahead of schedule you could say

I do not honestly know from experience but I feel no need to experiment to find out. I do know however the "breakdown" varies greatly depending on the quality of the product purchased and that there is no clear way to know what I would purchase. To much of a "roll of the dice" for me is all

Grimlore

 

[Smoke]

I do not honestly know from experience but I feel no need to experiment to find out. I do know however the "breakdown" varies greatly depending on the quality of the product purchased and that there is no clear way to know what I would purchase. To much of a "roll of the dice" for me is all

Grimlore

Ever thought about being a politician?

 

[GrimLore]

Ever thought about being a politician?

I was... Also a Community leader in 2 States, a Leader in Quality program development in the Scientific Industry, Automotive Industry, and Named the "Best" Technician in the Computer Industry by the largest distributor of Computer Products and Microsoft. I could enhance the list with more but I would think you know by now I am not so inclined to boast about Bonsai and prefer to keep to myself. I love the interaction and the Community but this is the one thing in my life that is "personal". You are a good guy Al - no matter what you try to present and looking forward to meeting you.

Grimmy

 

[yenling83]

Dan we repotted one of your collected trees at the seasonal I was at up there this spring. Was trying to find your email to send you pics a few days back but couldn't locate it. Here's a small screenshot. Looks great in the new pot, will look even more amazing once it's been refined further.

Dan did you collect this tree or did you purchase it and have it at Mr. Haggedorn's place? Either way, that looks like a phenomenal tree! Would love to see some more pics, maybe on your blog soon?


-I just checked your blog again and noticed it on there, did not realize Steve collected it. Very Nice! You have done a fantastic job collecting!

 

[Darth Tanuki]

I think or at least hope that most are up to speed on this info but its nice to read it anyways for a change. I think the complaint or argument is that it breaks down in one winter for the folks in the north east, N. Europe , etc. which is too fast for the developing root system. A little ahead of schedule you could say

The beauty of using a mix of akadama with other substrates such as lava and pumice is that if you are in a wetter climate, use less akadama, and water less often. Rapid break down does not seem to be an issue for the users of this particular mix in the colder states.

 

[nathanbs]

The beauty of using a mix of akadama with other substrates such as lava and pumice is that if you are in a wetter climate, use less akadama, and water less often. Rapid break down does not seem to be an issue for the users of this particular mix in the colder states.

thats not what im reading here. 3 or more people are on here claiming that the akadama in their mix turns to sludge, slurry, muck ,etc. Whats interesting to me is that if it was mixed a substantial amount of pumice and lava, how would it turn into mud. The other other components alone would prevent that. If i lived in the north eastern U.S. I would try 40% pumice 40% lava 20% akadama or 60% pumice 20% lava 20 akadama. Has anyone tried this or are you filling your pots up with 100% akadama or close to that?

 

[Adair M]

I use Boon mix. Basicly, 1/3 akadama, 1/3 pumice, 1/3 lava. Need more water retention, increase the proportion of akadama. Less water retention, less akadama.

 

[Beng]

Let's go thru this one more time...

Akadama does break down over time. That's one of it's attributes! (Which means it a good thing!)

When fresh, the akadama in the soil mix provides lots of air space between particles. And it holds some, but not a lot of water. Dryer soil (within reason) encourages roots to grow, to seek out water and nutrients. As time passes, the akadama breaks down, the roots have grown into it, and have multiplied. Leaves (needles, whatever) are growing, and demand more water. Broken down akadama retains more water than fresh akadama, so the water is there for the growing plant.

Also, while akadama does retain water, it's not organic. Which means it won't rot. A material like pine bark will rot. As organic material rots, it consumes nitrogen, robbing the tree this nutrient. Akadama, doesn't since it's not organic.

In short, akadama changes it's structure (from balls to being more like sand) as the root system of the tree changes from pruned to ramified. When completely broken down, it slows the root growth, because it stays wetter longer. Roots don't grow as much when they're constantly wet.

So, "finished trees" will do fine in akadama since we are really just trying to maintain the style/shape they're in. Trees can often go several years between repottings when they are in akadama.

Younger, developing trees will benefit from more frequent repottings into fresh akadama, to stimulate rapid root growth, and vegetative growth.

Truly, akadama is wonderful stuff for bonsai. It's almost as if it were designed to be bonsai soil.

Perfectly explained!

 

[Beng]

You can grow a great trunk quickly in pure pumice or lava or a combination of them, as well as a number of other ingredients. But when maintaining an old tree there's no substitute for akadama that I know of. I don't think you will find many professionals that don't use it on their own finished show ready trees. If the trees worth a few hundred dollars to thousands the cost of a 40 dollar bag every 3+ years is nothing.

 

[Dan W.]

Dan did you collect this tree or did you purchase it and have it at Mr. Haggedorn's place? Either way, that looks like a phenomenal tree! Would love to see some more pics, maybe on your blog soon?


-I just checked your blog again and noticed it on there, did not realize Steve collected it. Very Nice! You have done a fantastic job collecting!

Thanks Jeremiah! You got it, Steve collected this one. He's collected some, I have others, and we've done a lot of them as a team. It's awesome to see how a tree you collected turns out in the hands of someone like Michael. He did a great job, and I can't wait to see it in person. Our 2014 season is just around the corner!!!

 

[Dan W.]

Ben, that $40 bag will also often do quite a few trees depending on size or whether it's mixed with anything. I've repotted at least 7 trees so far this spring and used varying amounts of akadama in each. Some 50/50 Akadama/Pimice, others with less. And I still have more left from the same bag.

 

[wireme]

Let's go thru this one more time...

Akadama does break down over time. That's one of it's attributes! (Which means it a good thing!)

When fresh, the akadama in the soil mix provides lots of air space between particles. And it holds some, but not a lot of water. Dryer soil (within reason) encourages roots to grow, to seek out water and nutrients. As time passes, the akadama breaks down, the roots have grown into it, and have multiplied. Leaves (needles, whatever) are growing, and demand more water. Broken down akadama retains more water than fresh akadama, so the water is there for the growing plant.

Also, while akadama does retain water, it's not organic. Which means it won't rot. A material like pine bark will rot. As organic material rots, it consumes nitrogen, robbing the tree this nutrient. Akadama, doesn't since it's not organic.

In short, akadama changes it's structure (from balls to being more like sand) as the root system of the tree changes from pruned to ramified. When completely broken down, it slows the root growth, because it stays wetter longer. Roots don't grow as much when they're constantly wet.

So, "finished trees" will do fine in akadama since we are really just trying to maintain the style/shape they're in. Trees can often go several years between repottings when they are in akadama.

Younger, developing trees will benefit from more frequent repottings into fresh akadama, to stimulate rapid root growth, and vegetative growth.

Truly, akadama is wonderful stuff for bonsai. It's almost as if it were designed to be bonsai soil.

I am bit skeptical of the real world effects of the organics robbing nitrogen as they decay. Normally the organics used are high carbon materials and slow to decay, while the nitrogen we introduce via fertilizer may be being used in the organic particles is the decay action absorbing it all out of the inorganic particles as well? Isn't it also not so much being robbed as borrowed and slowly returned over time?

It seems that organics will also evolve with the soil breaking down to similar practical effect?

Maybe organics hold more water than akadama when fresh affecting the second paragraph quoted?

 

[wireme]

Oh yeah, and nice backcountry tree Dan!

 

[Darth Tanuki]

An issue with organics mixed in to the soil mix is controlling the fertilization timing of our trees. For example, when controlling needle length on Jap Black pine, we usually do not fertilize for a month after decandling. If you have organics in your soil mix, you can't control this. The same applies to our deciduous trees in the refinement stages, we cannot control the organics when the internodes are first elongating.

 

[Poink88]

An issue with organics mixed in to the soil mix is controlling the fertilization timing of our trees. For example, when controlling needle length on Jap Black pine, we usually do not fertilize for a month after decandling. If you have organics in your soil mix, you can't control this. The same applies to our deciduous trees in the refinement stages, we cannot control the organics when the internodes are first elongating.

This I can buy into. Best argument I've seen so far (which doesn't apply for developing trees). Thanks!

 

[coh]

This I can buy into. Best argument I've seen so far (which doesn't apply for developing trees). Thanks!

Yeah but...doesn't akadama supposedly do the same thing as other organics? Its ability to hold some nutrients is supposedly one of its big benefits.