Do you have to wait until spring to collect yamadori?

[BobbyLane]

It all depends on the local climate and what species - also the size, location and species you want to collect . You could wait till early spring but here in UK most commercial tree nurseries start lifting their bare root deciduous field grown trees starting in late October onwards and if theyre not being planted on a landscape scheme immediately their roots are packed with damp straw , bagged then stored in a cold shed in bundles till planting time, Alternatively dig a trench and heel them into the ground till planting time.
The most critical thing is to protect roots from drying out. Providing you are collecting trees suited to your climate zone its really not much maintenance trying to keep newly collected material safe as they have evolved to withstand your winters !!

if they were all dying from being dug up in winter and placed in cold sheds, there would be no bare root industry because they wouldnt be making any money.

yet some are still confused

 

[Cable]

I know that the general guideline is to wait until late-winter/early spring to collect yamadori. I don't fully understand why that's the case. Especially for dormant deciduous species of trees. Flame away!

As many have noted, there are lots of factors so no one answer.

it can depend on your region and the innate growing cycles of the native plants.

A lot of us love in temperate regions which makes late winter / early spring a good time to collect while giving the trees the best chance of success. A lot of it comes down to root production. Studies have shown that temperate trees maintain root growth whenever the ground temperature is above 42 degrees. I’d to late fall can be a good time to collect if it is after leaf drop but still allows for several weeks of root growth before full dormancy. But, the trade off is that the collected tree may not gain full winter hardiness because it is trying to replace the lost roots so it is utilizing stored sugars and starches instead of holding on to them. Higher concentrations are what give the cells resistance to low temperatures.

In the spring, trees are (hopefully!) past the danger of extreme low temperatures and have begun moving those resources into active growth. Before leaf out the tree still has adequate stored resources to allocate to root growth since it is in an energy positive state. If you collect after leaf out then those resources have mostly been spent plus you have all the leaves expiring moisture without all the roots to replenish.

Theres also a difference between deciduous plants which can rapidly regrow roots and evergreen which tend to be slower to do so but I’m out of time to jabber. Lol.

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

Im still new to bonsai and im dying to see what replies u get. Ive collected 4 uninteresting trees this fall just to test fall collection. What im already seeing is that its just too much maintenance trying to keep newly collected material safe from freezing as well as cool enough to stay dormant.(I have a polytunnel) Stressed trees and stressed me already seeing that its not worth it. Check out the daytime temp today in the tunnel right now

Dang, 84*. It was 71* here yesterdary, but it'll swing back to the high 50's by tomorrrow. The weather here fluctuates a lot and won't really stay consistently cold until February.

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

Thanks for all of the information everyone. I'll go take some pics of the piece today. It's a tree that got hacked back because it was leaning too far into the sidewalk area. Trees like it that surround it still have some leaves, but they're dropping. The trunk itself feels pretty loose. Another can of works topic is soil. I've seen anywhere from 100% pumice, to 50/50 pumice/perlite, to a mix of turface, pine bark, diatomaceous earth and sand. My collection experience is pretty light. Mostly saplings with a decent amount of success.

 

[sorce]

word he uses to describe the section of the tree that shoots the new fine roots

The F?

Razajin is a character from a game? Lol!

Sorce

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

I believe that it is a Carolina willow. Ironically my first thought was to train it in a weeping form, but I would just be fighting the natural tendancies of the tree.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Willows are a challenge as bonsai. They grow fast, almost too fast to keep up with. In general even the weeping willow is an upright tree. The branches of a weeping willow run out straight with little or no branching. Then the weight of the long branch causes it to weep. In bonsai, the branches never get long enough to weep, so you have to use wire to get each and every branch to weep. You wire the tree out in early summer, then remove the wire in the following spring. Then rewire again a few weeks later in early summer. Rinse, repeat. Weeping willow is a high maintenance style of tree. Can be done, just not easy.

But willow as an informal upright is no problem.

 

[BrianBay9]

Willows are a challenge as bonsai. They grow fast, almost too fast to keep up with. In general even the weeping willow is an upright tree. The branches of a weeping willow run out straight with little or no branching. Then the weight of the long branch causes it to weep. In bonsai, the branches never get long enough to weep, so you have to use wire to get each and every branch to weep. You wire the tree out in early summer, then remove the wire in the following spring. Then rewire again a few weeks later in early summer. Rinse, repeat. Weeping willow is a high maintenance style of tree. Can be done, just not easy.

But willow as an informal upright is no problem.

And collecting a willow should be dead easy.

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

And collecting a willow should be dead easy.

That's good to hear. The only reason I'm even asking is because this tree is in an HOA area that is landscaped by some company we likely overpay for. I just don't want it to get taken out before I get a chance to collect it.

 

[0soyoung]

Willows are the definition of 'easy to root'. Likely, you could just cut some stems, bundle them, heel them in for the winter, and watch them root and spring to life next spring. You could also just put a bunch in water to make willow water that is a moderate root stimulator (auxin).

 

[Johnathan]

The F?View attachment 274681

Razajin is a character from a game? Lol!

Sorce

Has to be some kinda rhizome thingamajig doohickey

 

[Orion_metalhead]

I would imagine, that in South Carolina you can collect at any point during the winter dormancy period and be quite successful with bottom heat applied and the top kept cool. Because the tree is transpiring minimally in cooler climates, and has less of a need for water, the tree will use resources to grow roots in a heated environment while the crown remains dormant. Come spring, when temperatures and sunlight increase and tell the tree to begin producing foliage, you'll have a strong root system to support. There is a mirai video on bottom heat applied to collecting and he mentions that this is used on many of his collected trees to ensure strong root growth. I've noticed that my trees are still growing roots slowly, even though temps have been relatively cool and the trees are, for lack of a better word, dormant. Their roots are still getting some heat, so they will spend some resources to expand them.

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

I would imagine, that in South Carolina you can collect at any point during the winter dormancy period and be quite successful with bottom heat applied and the top kept cool. Because the tree is transpiring minimally in cooler climates, and has less of a need for water, the tree will use resources to grow roots in a heated environment while the crown remains dormant. Come spring, when temperatures and sunlight increase and tell the tree to begin producing foliage, you'll have a strong root system to support. There is a mirai video on bottom heat applied to collecting and he mentions that this is used on many of his collected trees to ensure strong root growth. I've noticed that my trees are still growing roots slowly, even though temps have been relatively cool and the trees are, for lack of a better word, dormant. Their roots are still getting some heat, so they will spend some resources to expand them.

Hmm, that's interesting. I've actually skipped that stream because I didn't really think it would apply to me.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Extraneous knowledge never doesnt apply.

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

Forgot to report back, but I collected it and it already started pushing out leaves less than a week later. It's going well so far.

 

[HouBonsai]

Just to piggy back on what was said about collecting by @Zach Smith here is a video from Mauro Stemberger kind of explaining the process. No matter how many times I watch, I can't make out the word he uses to describe the section of the tree that shoots the new fine roots.

It's at the 11 minute mark.

I figured it out I think. The "rhizogen area". AKA the Rhizogenic zone which is the root generation zone.

 

[Veebs]

Just to piggy back on what was said about collecting by @Zach Smith here is a video from Mauro Stemberger kind of explaining the process. No matter how many times I watch, I can't make out the word he uses to describe the section of the tree that shoots the new fine roots.

It's at the 11 minute mark.

I’m pretty sure he said “Rhizogen area” as in rhizogenesis aka root generation area.

Well crap, I didn’t read to the end and someone already found it.