Do these trees have potential? (Mugo pine, Birds nest spruce)

[Cruiser]

I found a birds nest spruce and Mugo pine at a local nursery. The root masses were not potted, missing chunks, and were exposed for at least a year. Despite that, the foliage looks ok on both trees.

The spruce has 3 trunks each 3-5 in diameter. The Mugo trunk is 4 in.

Both trees were potted into large containers to help their roots recover. Id like to prune some branches on the spruce soon and work on the pine branches this summer.

I’ve been learning about bonsai styling but I’m still new to all this so I’m not quite sure what the best way to prune these trees is.

Could someone more experienced please provide some direction?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Indeed yes. Perhaps number one best suggestion is keep healthy and alive until possible to contact local Bonsai club and meet with experienced member to get personal pointers moving forward. Trees seem to have very good potential and would be shame to kill them so PATIENCE most needed and is most hard skill to master for new Bonsai fans. Be aware most newcomers kill trees with impatience and excess of "attention" not needed nor desired by innocent tree.

 

[edprocoat]

Both make great Bonsai. I think you may still be able to find posts here from Vance Wood who is a master with the Mugho pine. I have had two very nice Bird's nest Spruce, they are very hardy and the new growth looks like little bright green flowers. This is not a good time to prune any conifer though due to sap flowing which will be like the tree bleeding to death. Prune these only when they are dormant late fall/winter. You will find with a Mugho Pine that usually the best part of the trunk is just below the surface of the soil, they tend to grow roots that encircle the trunk like a tourniquet which will make the trunk swell even thicker.

 

[sorce]

Both make great Bonsai. I think you may still be able to find posts here from Vance Wood who is a master with the Mugho pine. I have had two very nice Bird's nest Spruce, they are very hardy and the new growth looks like little bright green flowers. This is not a good time to prune any conifer though due to sap flowing which will be like the tree bleeding to death. Prune these only when they are dormant late fall/winter. You will find with a Mugho Pine that usually the best part of the trunk is just below the surface of the soil, they tend to grow roots that encircle the trunk like a tourniquet which will make the trunk swell even thicker.

Hey man! Glad you're up!

Hope you're well!

Sorce

 

[Cruiser]

Indeed yes. Perhaps number one best suggestion is keep healthy and alive until possible to contact local Bonsai club and meet with experienced member to get personal pointers moving forward. Trees seem to have very good potential and would be shame to kill them so PATIENCE most needed and is most hard skill to master for new Bonsai fans. Be aware most newcomers kill trees with impatience and excess of "attention" not needed nor desired by innocent tree.

Thanks. I needed to hear this. It’s true, I’m excited to learn and impatient, but I don’t want to hurt these trees, so I’ll wait.

 

[Cruiser]

Both make great Bonsai. I think you may still be able to find posts here from Vance Wood who is a master with the Mugho pine. I have had two very nice Bird's nest Spruce, they are very hardy and the new growth looks like little bright green flowers. This is not a good time to prune any conifer though due to sap flowing which will be like the tree bleeding to death. Prune these only when they are dormant late fall/winter. You will find with a Mugho Pine that usually the best part of the trunk is just below the surface of the soil, they tend to grow roots that encircle the trunk like a tourniquet which will make the trunk swell even thicker.

Thanks for the advice. I thought Mugos were an exception and are ok to prune mid summer? Either way I’ll wait until someone local with more experience can have a look.

 

[BrightsideB]

Nice trees!

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Youre in Washington state, which means your trees should just be coming out of dormancy. Let grow through spring until summer pause at least until working them. I would prune back mid summer for the mugho and then fertilize heavily with a balanced fertilizer in late summer fall to promote backbudding. This will give you option next year to cut back to.

There is an excellent thread on mugho in the pines subforum with @Vance Wood's advice on mughos. They are a versatile hardy species.

The spruce I would treat like any spruce... after first flush of growth in early-mid may hardens off, you can prune back to the point just after the new growth's elongation to promote budding back on the branch. Fertilize as with the pine through late summer and fall.

Both species love lots of sunlight. Careful with your watering on the mugho. They like it on the drier side.

 

[Cruiser]

Update:
Mugo.. last growing season (‘21) was rough. It lost a lot of needles. None of the candles produced new growth. The tree sort of gave up on growing and just tried to stay alive. I believe over watering was partially to blame.

Fast forward to now… the mugo actually is putting on new growth. Needles emerged from last years extended candles. New buds are popping out.
This must be the second year “creep” I’ve heard about… hopefully next year it will “leap”.

 

[Cruiser]

Removed a main branch from interior cluster. There were/are too many branches originating in one area that are starting to fuse into a bulky mess. More need to be removed, but the tree is still recovering from last year so I was conservative.

 

[0soyoung]

There were/are too many branches originating in one area that are starting to fuse into a bulky mess.

I dunno, odd things are usually interesting to me. But there is, indeed, too much going on right now.

You've got lots of curvy/curly branches that I find interesting. I am enthralled by that curly stuff above and a bit to the right of the base trunk, and thinking I'd like that to be the main theme. So, I would be getting rid of the straight ones, and ones with sharp, angular bends.

 

[Cruiser]

Yes, I also like the piggly wiggly growth! The current plan is to keep that part and tilt the tree to create a cascade. The long branch on the left would be the bottom branch. Of course, plans change, and this tree is strange, so I’m still not sure where to take it. (Or let it take itself)

 

[Potawatomi13]

Yes. But one problem remains: No branching/foliage close in to trunk. Great trunks though. Best of fortune.

 

[Cruiser]

Yes. But one problem remains: No branching/foliage close in to trunk. Great trunks though. Best of fortune.

Indeed. Still hoping for some backbuds to come along. I think the wood is just too old to sprout anything close to the trunk.

 

[Paradox]

Removed a main branch from interior cluster. There were/are too many branches originating in one area that are starting to fuse into a bulky mess. More need to be removed, but the tree is still recovering from last year so I was conservative.

Wise move. If these trees are still weak, you need to give them all the time they need to become strong and vigorous again. Since the are a bit more mature, this could take some time. I would feed them every couple of weeks until mid October then start preparing them for winter protection, whatever that means to you in your area.

I would see how they start off next season, but I would continue to feed next year every two weeks and just let them grow. You can take a few branches off next fall that you know wont make it into the final design. Evaluate again in spring 2024 and see how they do before you take additional steps.

 

[Cruiser]

Inspiration for the birds nest spruce. Some Monterey cypresses have remarkably flat and dense foliage masses atop thick gnarled trunks.

 

[Cruiser]

Re-potted the Mugo.

Just before repot.



The original soil was sandy with a lot of clay. Upon purchase I added a mycorrhizae tablet and standard potting mix around the edges and top of the root mass. Nearly all the root growth from the last couple of years was in the added potting mix.



The sandy clay core was dug out. Thick downward growing root stubs were removed in the process.



The mycorrhizae tablet worked. There was a discreet colony in one place where the roots were noticeably better.



The tree went into a slightly smaller pot of 100% pumice. Im treating it as collected material until it shows more signs of vigor.

 

[Mike Westervelt]

You have retained the small foliage circled in yellow which is good, but leaving all the long strong stuff will eventually weaken the part that I think is your bonsai.
If it were me, I'd feed the heck out of it, and when the new growth hardens off, chop all the long strong branches to the first or second set of green as indicated by the blue lines.
I can see a nice stocky semi cascade in there.

 

[Cruiser]

You have retained the small foliage circled in yellow which is good, but leaving all the long strong stuff will eventually weaken the part that I think is your bonsai.
If it were me, I'd feed the heck out of it, and when the new growth hardens off, chop all the long strong branches to the first or second set of green as indicated by the blue lines.
I can see a nice stocky semi cascade in there.

View attachment 478036

I fed it a lot the last couple of years but growth has been underwhelming. Two medium branches were removed in ‘21 and one last year. There wasn’t a noticeable response.
The tree just doesn’t seem strong enough to do any major removal at this point. Current years buds look so-so. My theory is that the poor soil conditions were a factor which is why I removed it and went with pumice.

 

[Cruiser]

Mugo update: Buds look festively plump. Much healthier compared to last year.

In ‘21 most candles did not open. In ‘22 needles emerged from old candles and set buds. Hopefully, things get back to normal this season.