[developing primary branches] Do bougies put on branch-girth while going-into flowering?

SU2

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I've got a *lot* of bougies that I collected/propagated last year and am now working towards developing 'initial branching structure' so vigorous growth is my main horticultural aim right now, but it's often beset by bougies' tendency towards frequent, long-lasting flowering-phases.....or so I thought!

My current tech when a bougie starts developing flowers is to simply let the flowers get just long-enough that my 'precision sheers' can nip them off, so that is what I do, with the rationale that I want vegetative growth and that these flowering-phases are nothing but wasted time & resources......but I just started thinking something that's got me kind of embarrassed for having taken so long to conceive of- bougies' "flowers" are actually white, tiny, tubular protrusions from the center of what most think are the flowers, which in actuality are 'modified leaf-bracts' - given that bougies flower very profusely, and that 95%+ of that flowering-growth is fast-growing, leaf-sized flower-bracts, I've begun to think that maybe, since it's obviously taking resources to build those large clusters of bracts, that this period of flower development is actually something that's *good* for me in that it does induce branch-girth in a similar way to vegetative growth (I mean, it's generating canopy-mass at a serious rate)

With this realization, if it is on-point at least, it seems that the smartest approach to rapidly-growing a bougie's primary branch structure would be to let it grow its flowers for a while, like almost until they're fully-formed, then remove them as soon as flower-growth starts to slow (removing only flower-buds, no growing-tips or true leaves)

Any confirmation/refutation of my thoughts & intended course of action here would be hugely appreciated! I used to just prune-back my bougies when they started to flower, figuring it'd just push a new round of vegetative growth, but this was not only a hit/miss operation (a good amount of the time the resultant growth would be flowering as it grew-out..), it was also just knee-capping any efforts to generate branch-girth because it wasn't allowing enough unfettered growth. I used to be under the false impression that the tip of any bougie shoot that began flowering, would no longer grow vegetatively, ie for that branch to continue gaining girth it'd need a new leader, a new 'growing-tip' from a secondary shoot lower on that branch, I've since found this was false and that a flowering bougie shoot will continue growing from the same tip during & after flowering!

Thanks a ton for anything on this, it's such a minutiae thing for most people but I've got almost all bougies in my garden and they're all in-development so it's of big consequence to me to utilize the growing-time I have, am now thinking this method - let it grow-out flowers vigorously til their growth slows and then remove them immediately - will allow the greatest branch-thickening in the shortest time, presuming all horticultural practices are in-line of course!
 
these flowering-phases are nothing but wasted time & resources
Just wondering, if you don't want them to flower, then why bougies to begin with? Why have them if not to enjoy the bracts? I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, but the reason I have so many, is for their colorful show.
 
With this realization, if it is on-point at least, it seems that the smartest approach to rapidly-growing a bougie's primary branch structure would be to let it grow its flowers for a while, like almost until they're fully-formed, then remove them as soon as flower-growth starts to slow (removing only flower-buds, no growing-tips or true leaves)

Mileage varies, you can only learn how they work for you if by marking where the hardwood throws green wood with a marker at the beginning of the grow season and observing after flowering :) I would be foolish to share how they grow up here for a LOT of reasons :)

Grimmy
 
Just wondering, if you don't want them to flower, then why bougies to begin with? Why have them if not to enjoy the bracts? I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, but the reason I have so many, is for their colorful show.

Because these are bougainvilleas I'm developing to be bonsais and they're not remotely close to being ready for showing/enjoying, will enjoy tons of flowers(bracts) once they're bonsai but right now my collection is in the very first stages of development ie creating primary/secondary branching, right now they're not for show I just want to develop them and letting them sit w/ flowers that aren't growing is wasted time! :)

(I should add that I've got enough trees that I do always let something bloom, sometimes a bougie sometimes a crape, but there's always a specimen blooming that's placed on my center bench so I can look outside and see a pretty flowering tree, right now it's a crape :)
20180617_180323.jpg
^that actually just got moved last night and its flowers cut, so it could resume vegetative growth, and was replaced by a different crape whose flower-buds finally opened yesterday...I always have one in-flower to be showy to some degree but for the most part it's just trying to develop/create bonsai not sit and admire stock ;D )
 
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Mileage varies, you can only learn how they work for you if by marking where the hardwood throws green wood with a marker at the beginning of the grow season and observing after flowering :) I would be foolish to share how they grow up here for a LOT of reasons :)

Grimmy

Yknow that's not a bad idea!! I've got maybe ~20+ trying to start flowering right now, have been removing buds as soon as they're long enough to cut all (3) 3-bract clusters (don't want to remove too-un-developed flowers and risk it trying to throw another from the same node), will instead go and tag a bunch of branches on various bougies and take measurements today, then do ASAP flower-removal to some specimen and flower-removal after the flower-bracts fully form to the others....with so many going into flowering-phases now it should be pretty easy to see a trend if I tag 10-20 branches and compare before/afters in a month or two (am half-expecting to see a trend even sooner than that, really wish I had a caliper for measuring girth :/ )
 
Yknow that's not a bad idea!! I've got maybe ~20+ trying to start flowering right now, have been removing buds as soon as they're long enough to cut all (3) 3-bract clusters (don't want to remove too-un-developed flowers and risk it trying to throw another from the same node), will instead go and tag a bunch of branches on various bougies and take measurements today, then do ASAP flower-removal to some specimen and flower-removal after the flower-bracts fully form to the others....with so many going into flowering-phases now it should be pretty easy to see a trend if I tag 10-20 branches and compare before/afters in a month or two (am half-expecting to see a trend even sooner than that, really wish I had a caliper for measuring girth :/ )

The same advice I gave goes along with several plants and Northern VS Southern growing. I have a lot of examples that I have learned from and honest the way it works here is FAR different most times :eek:

I am fortunate to know several Southern growers but not quite so deep South. I used to have one but after I told him to F-Off seems we have not spoken in years :P

I would advise some very good growers/sources in FL but honest they live FAR North of you so it would still be a "live and learn" situation with observation.

I am curious though if you might have any Bougainvillea growers there. Not the commercial type but the type that puts out hundreds every Spring for Sale out front, in hanging baskets and such for yearly replacement on the porch. Serious - if they are close by they will provide information if you buy any at all ;)

Grimmy
 
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The same advice I gave goes along with several plants and Northern VS Southern growing. I have a lot of examples that I have learned from and honest the way it works here is FAR different most times :eek:

I am fortunate to know several Southern growers but not quite so deep South. I used to have one but after I told him to F-Off seems we have not spoken in years :p

I would advise some very good growers/sources in FL but honest they live FAR North of you so it would still be a "live and learn" situation with observation.

I am curious though if you might have any Bougainvillea growers there. Not the commercial type but the type that puts out hundreds every Spring for Sale out front, in hanging baskets and such for yearly replacement on the porch. Serious - if they are close by they will provide information if you buy any at all ;)

Grimmy

Another great idea! Will certainly try and find a commercial operation, am friendly w/ someone at a nursery so may be able to get in contact w/ the right people (have never seen the generic type of sale you describe though.....however *I* may be doing that this autumn lol, as I've got far too-many specimen and am going to be trying to lose a lot of the ones w/ lower/no potential, figured I could dump 20-30 w/o losing any sleep in fact I've been giving away better ones to any friend/acquaintance I can get into bonsai lol :D )

(and can't say I'm surprised you guys haven't spoken ;) Knowing you though, if they got you to that point I'd say they weren't worth keeping in-touch with! Gotta say I'm super-curious who it is, their first name wouldn't begin with E, would it?)

Definitely a live&learn, but I've got this great situation now of having literally 20 or 30 bougies that are just starting to flower so I've got a large enough data set to work from and, with them being at that stage now, when I compare the lengths of my tagged branches after ~4-6wks there should be a clear trend as to whether pulling the flowers ASAP was helping or hurting length....can only extrapolate that length is going to proportionally influence girth, w/o calipers I can only guess at that :/ Just makes sense though that growing so many of those modified leaves, 'bracts' that house the actual (tiny) flowers, that growing them requires a similar nutrient-load as growing regular leaves and that, if it wants to vigorously pump-out flowers, I should let that growth occur until they've reached full-size and *then* clip their petioles!
 
Gotta say I'm super-curious who it is, their first name wouldn't begin with E, would it?)

No, and it is my Brother In Law, turned out to be a Bi-Polar Meth head that "thinks" Pot helps his condition... He legally goes by Ben Hessler but he hates that and only answers to "worm" - Jackhat that will NEVER cross my path again. o_O

You do have an ideal situation, take lots of notes for certain, it will give you solid experience :)

Grimmy
 
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