Delve into a newbies garden! 😎

[Clorgan]

What is the endgame you have in mind for this one?

I'd quite like a short stumpy thing... Really technical language there, Saturday night beers out again

Edit - little thought into this one as of yet to be honest, it's taken a back seat!

 

[leatherback]

In the end you want taper on it. So you need to decide a route to get this.. Chopping low is a way. Letting a whole load of low branches shoot out too.

 

[Clorgan]

In the end you want taper on it. So you need to decide a route to get this.. Chopping low is a way. Letting a whole load of low branches shoot out too.

Definitely, it's like a drainpipe. I'm thinking first branch... Should have chopped before planting but never mind.

 

[Clorgan]

In the end you want taper on it. So you need to decide a route to get this.. Chopping low is a way. Letting a whole load of low branches shoot out too.

Bit of doodling...thoughts?

 

[Clorgan]

Ignore the poorly drawn branches

 

[leatherback]

I find it hard to judge the scale on this. Most of the time people seem to miss the scale needed to put a realistic bonsai on a table. Trunks are a lot thicker than often thought.

Did you see this?

Size Matters - Growing Bonsai

How big are bonsai?It is an important question to ask yourself when you start off with bonsai. Because the trees are small, but still fairly big. How big..?

www.growingbonsai.net

 

[Clorgan]

I find it hard to judge the scale on this. Most of the time people seem to miss the scale needed to put a realistic bonsai on a table. Trunks are a lot thicker than often thought.

Did you see this?

Size Matters - Growing Bonsai

How big are bonsai?It is an important question to ask yourself when you start off with bonsai. Because the trees are small, but still fairly big. How big..?

www.growingbonsai.net

I did, good to be reminded though! Hm maybe this helps? Too small?

 

[leatherback]

WIth field maple, I prefer to go for fatter trunks. They seem to have a fairly coarse growing habit. Hence my earlier: What is your long term plan

 

[Clorgan]

WIth field maple, I prefer to go for fatter trunks. They seem to have a fairly coarse growing habit. Hence my earlier: What is your long term plan

Yeah the sketch above was just a quick thought - chop at first branch but with the chop slanting up to the left. Hope for a well placed new leader, grow that leftwards, then chop again and grow the crown to the right?

Of course the sketch doesn't take growing trunk thickness into account... Being new to this I have no idea how much girth it'll put on over the time of growing the new leader...

But I guess I could go ahead with the first chop regardless? So the first branch trunk chop. My thinking is the chop needs to slant up to the left because I need a change of direction in a new leader?

If I had that first branch as the new leader, it'd just carry on growing to the right?

I'm hoping this makes sense. Please do correct me if I'm completely on the wrong track

Maybe @BobbyLane @Paulpash or @TomB could help me out again?

 

[leatherback]

If you want the trunk substantially thicker, cutting back does not make sense. Recommended" Once you have well over 2/3 of the desired base thickness consider chopping.

 

[Shibui]

It is always good to have a plan but the trees do not always respond as we hope and may not give you all the options you need for such a detailed plan to come to fruition. Better to just start with a vague direction in mind and let it evolve as the tree does.
From experience trees seem to put on very little girth while growing out new leaders. I guess that is why @leatherback has suggested growing to over 2/3 of final girth before starting to develop final leaders and branches. i do. however encourage early and frequent trunk chops as they develop taper and better options for new leaders each year. Just defer final leader and most branch development until the final phase.
I make initial trunk chops almost horizontal. Making a slanting cut will not ensure a bud will sprout at the top on the correct side. Any initial cut will need to be cut again after the new shoots have started and gained enough strength and vigour to draw sap so there is no real point going to the trouble of making a neat angle cut straight up. New buds could pop out anywhere and you will have to work with what the tree gives you so just chop and cross fingers.

 

[Clorgan]

It is always good to have a plan but the trees do not always respond as we hope and may not give you all the options you need for such a detailed plan to come to fruition. Better to just start with a vague direction in mind and let it evolve as the tree does.
From experience trees seem to put on very little girth while growing out new leaders. I guess that is why @leatherback has suggested growing to over 2/3 of final girth before starting to develop final leaders and branches. i do. however encourage early and frequent trunk chops as they develop taper and better options for new leaders each year. Just defer final leader and most branch development until the final phase.
I make initial trunk chops almost horizontal. Making a slanting cut will not ensure a bud will sprout at the top on the correct side. Any initial cut will need to be cut again after the new shoots have started and gained enough strength and vigour to draw sap so there is no real point going to the trouble of making a neat angle cut straight up. New buds could pop out anywhere and you will have to work with what the tree gives you so just chop and cross fingers.

Nice, thanks for this, great info! And cheers to @leatherback as always too.

All makes sense - so in this case, it'd be good to just do one initial trunk chop for now (as the taper is non-existent) and then leave to get max growth? Or just leave it altogether for now? I'm happy doing either

Thanks for the straight chop info, I'd never realised that so really good to know

 

[Shibui]

Either way will still work but I prefer to chop earlier (ie now) so the subsequent rapid regrowth of the subsequent rapid growing stage helps to heal over the first chop which is also usually the biggest. In the final stages regrowth will be limited a bit so you don't get coarse internodes so the amount of growth then is less so healing power is also less but that's OK if you have already got major chops out of the way and later chops are smaller each time so heal with less growth. If you leave large chops to the final stages they will take forever to heal.
It will probably all make a lot more sense when you have been through the process a few times.

 

[Paulpash]

Nice, thanks for this, great info! And cheers to @leatherback as always too.

All makes sense - so in this case, it'd be good to just do one initial trunk chop for now (as the taper is non-existent) and then leave to get max growth? Or just leave it altogether for now? I'm happy doing either

Thanks for the straight chop info, I'd never realised that so really good to know

If your end vision for the tree is your sketch then I'd allow it to flush out, harden off and chop in June - the sketch implies trunk girth requirements have been met. You might get lucky and can chop just above where an existing shoot has popped. If not then flat chop and select the best leader next Spring and take it from there. You'll get a ton of buds popping from the chop, some low down. If you want to pump up that base let a low shoot at the back run as a low sacrifice for a few years. These trees are very resilient and backbud like crazy. I've spent the usual 10 minute rubbing out of unwanted buds on the trunk of mine which is just in a bonsai pot, unchopped - I'd be surprised if you don't get a lot of options to choose from whether you go Shibui's route to heal early or mine to try and induce a shoot to pop so you can better predict your future trunk line. Both have merits.

 

[Clorgan]

Thanks @Shibui and @Paulpash - it's done! Not the neatest, but done

 

[Clorgan]

Nice to see some colour in the garden! Few quick snaps of random bits from today...

-Apples grown from seeds - just from a store bought apple. My fella ate one and saw the seeds were already sprouting, so shoved in some soil and seem to be doing well! (yes I know likely won't produce decent apples but fun anyway)

-chunky fuchsia budding - that large front stump needs to go at some point!

-crab apple - new addition. Small but nice trunk movement

-Styrax doing well - do need to add more soil to cover those roots, and give them a clean!

-spirea - should have done a better job sorting the roots when I repotted. I like this little one, but any suggestions for styling welcome! I drew up a sketch for it a while ago but not sure about it now. Growing well though. Again, needs a good scrubbing with the toothbrush!

-hornbeam - should have chopped much lower suggestions?

-trident - very slow to leaf out, and leaves struggling... Not sure why to be honest?

-field maple - budding slowly, cat also using as a chew toy...

-weigela - odd one... Found the dead section under the soil when repotted... Thought I'd try something different, not sure it's good different

-dwarf birch - leaves coming nicely. Excited to start branch selection!

 

[Clorgan]

Also, been having a good look at the potentilla this aft... Trying to decide on a front. Annoyingly I didn't take photos of the roots when I repotted, but they were actually pretty good - pretty even all round the trunk, which I think gives me good flexibility to choose either side for the front...

Sorry not the best photos (really need to sort a backdrop and be less lazy with photo taking!)

I like the deadwood in the first photo (which reminds me I probably need to re-treat it), but I think the second just looks better as the front?

Long way to go with branch development, haven't thought too much about it yet - just been letting it grow. Will sketch something up at some point.

 

[Clorgan]

Oh also here's the pot I've got for it - unfortunately I needed to repot before it arrived! But I think it'll work well. Presuming I'll have to wait until next spring?

 

[Balbs]

Oh also here's the pot I've got for it - unfortunately I needed to repot before it arrived! But I think it'll work well. Presuming I'll have to wait until next spring?

I love the pot. Who made it?

 

[Clorgan]

I love the pot. Who made it?

Thanks very much! It's from Erin Pottery, love their pots