Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Conifers/mostly pines much more peaceful to work with. Exception is busy busy Jap Black Pines. Not much fun/always needing busyness
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Deciduous are harder than Conifers... discuss
- Thread starter Nybonsai12
- Start date
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
I’d only point out that I’ve seen a great many conifers in the US that could quite likely be accepted to Kokufu. Many with less than 10 years of training after collection. I’ve seen precious few deciduous trees in the US for which I could say the same. I’ve seen close to zero posted on this site that I would consider out of development. Why? Well, although I don’t think it takes a huge amount of special skillls, I do think that many folks start refinement techniques too early and that sets their trees back. Many don’t know how to build branch structure on deciduous trees while others just don’t have the patience for it. I believe that the thing that separates truly excellent deciduous trees in Japan from what we have growing in the US is attention to detail. For me it is not difficult, but it is extremely hard.
Scott
It takes decades to develop good deciduous bonsai. One ( rarely if you are skilled and lucky) at least, two or more usually.
That's why you can't see them Now on the exhibitions. Not enough time passed on the West for developing them.
From my point of view, I do not know if deciduous bonsai is hader but it takes definitely longer.
Bonsai Beech
Seedling
Probably depends on where you are. Where I am, far away from most of you guys (I'm in Ireland), deciduous are possibly easier. Material easily found growing wild as well. I gather a few new specimens each year. But I do have evergreens as well. Haven't had many problems with either. Any problems I have had are usually down to me. Climate here means bugs and fungi are not a huge problem. Move to Ireland guys!
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
D-trees definitely take longer to develop. For example, here are shots from 2008 and 2018. Evergreen trees can be show-ready pretty quickly with well-placed foliage. D-trees out of leaf are quite exposed.
Maple:
Hawthorn:
Black pine:
Shimpaku, 2013 and 2017...just 4 years apart:
Maple:
Hawthorn:
Black pine:
Shimpaku, 2013 and 2017...just 4 years apart:
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
A conifer can keep green needles/foliage for days, or even weeks sometimes if it's dead, long after you missed the first symptoms.
Deciduous recover better to various stress in my opinion.
Maybe a good excuse for my being so bad at keeping conifers alive?
Deciduous recover better to various stress in my opinion.
Maybe a good excuse for my being so bad at keeping conifers alive?
grouper52
Masterpiece
Well, there is apparently is an option of just doing while high.
How many pix are there of trees with beer or whisky, bottles, and pot threads?
Like the French poets and artists of old, I prefer the enhanced vision afforded by absinth to other stuff, both for conifers and the rest.
Conifers, BTW, IMHO, are much more trouble, but well worth it, and here in the tropics I both miss them at times, and and glad not to have to mess with them at other times. Overall, though, my best trees have definitely been conifers.
ABCarve
Masterpiece
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
To say nothing of what its leaves do for soups, stews, and jambalayas.
How often to you defoliate it?
Mmmm...m good tastin' tree you've got there AB' quite pretty too.
carino
Seedling
You make a very good point. Being new to this, it seems like a deciduous tree can be difficult or easy depending on the circumstances and the same holds true for the conifers.
ABCarve
Masterpiece
I'm glad you asked that question. I have never defoliated it. Not because I didn't want to. Please chime in if you have any insights. I had a guinea pig I tried it on partially and it didn't seem to respond. I do cut old ugly leaves off and the ones blocking light for new ones. I'm really doing this by the seat of my pants as there is very little info out there. Each consecutive year, since its been in a small pot, it seems to become a different animal.
How about Elaeangus, grows constantly, hard to kill. Rosemary, Illex.
BrianBay9
Masterpiece
Agreed. Couple that with the fact that few collected, deciduous trees provide anything to the final form other than the base and trunk. Collected conifers can provide a huge head start on the final tree.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
I have no insight. Just a memory of passing on buying a bay laurel years ago and ruminating about bonsai of species with herbal uses. triggered by your post.
ABCarve
Masterpiece
MACH5
Imperial Masterpiece
For me it has been more or less easy to keep both conifers and deciduous alive and thriving with some exceptions. So horticulturally speaking both have been more or less the same for me. However, both are difficult to execute at a high artistic level. That benchmark might be different for everyone but I know what mine is. Although thus far I maintain a preference for deciduous species, I think both are fascinating in equal measure.
Wihtout a doubt, deciduous take a lot more time to develop correctly. That doesn't make them more or less challenging. Just a time frame issue.
Wihtout a doubt, deciduous take a lot more time to develop correctly. That doesn't make them more or less challenging. Just a time frame issue.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Decidious trees are harder because they fall under the hardwood category.
Conifers are in the softwood category.
Conifers are in the softwood category.
Tell that to the yew tree
Eric Group
Masterpiece
I find the styling and care of deciduous to be more intuitive and easier than Pine. Also, their health is easily identified by their growth vs a pine or Juniper that can hide stress for weeks or months sometimes... so short term care and long term styling to me is easier... LENGHT of time it takes to produce a good looking tree when starting with mature stock though? No contest- Juniper and Pine can be made into a good tree much faster, especially Juniper! It takes years of work to develop a well ramified deciduous Bonsai, almost irregardless of the starting material’s quality, age size or species.
Mike Hennigan
Chumono
Oh so that’s why they’re called ‘hardwoods’ huh? ?
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