YaBoyMyth
Mame
Well a lot of Dawn redwoods end up with no taper if you don’t do any pruning but I’ve never worked in it before so wanted opinions.
Dawn Redwood First winter
- Thread starter YaBoyMyth
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- dawn redwood decidious redwood
YaBoyMyth
Mame
Tree responds well when working on roots and doing top work?
Srt8madness
Omono
You have plenty of time for chops and developing taper. By cutting now you will retard development and cause potential problems down the road. If you get your taper set before you have your base girth close, you'll end up having to run a long sacrifice leader that will likely cause reverse taper and jack up a lot of the work you'd done beforehand (definitelywill require a rebuilding of a any apex you'd developed). Work that already took twice as long because you've been (hypothetically) holding back growth.
These aren't like other deciduous where you can just pop out a side branch as a sacrifice to increase girth. They are so apical dominant they have to be treated differently.
shimbrypaku
Shohin
No, I my zone North NC I cut the trees back after leaf drop, end of November first couple of weeks in December. Then I plant the cuttings,
I treat the dawn redwood like a bald cypress, I preform the root work before bud break, March is time here in NC.
Thanks
I treat the dawn redwood like a bald cypress, I preform the root work before bud break, March is time here in NC.
Thanks
shimbrypaku
Shohin
Thank for the information
Can you provide us with pictures of your long term development method?
I have only been growing them for about four years now from whip starters. Thanks
Srt8madness
Omono
Here is an example from a collected tree (bald cypress, very close to DR) showing the principle. The tree was collected with the bottom of the trunk at essentially the completed diameter. It was then chopped, and a new leader grown to introduce taper into what will become the apex.
If I needed the base to thicken up, I would have to basically grow it as a full size tree again, adding a ton of top growth to drive thickness, then chop it again and restart my taper building.
If I needed the base to thicken up, I would have to basically grow it as a full size tree again, adding a ton of top growth to drive thickness, then chop it again and restart my taper building.
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shimbrypaku
Shohin
Thanks,
But I was looking for a development plan for a small whip.
I am well versed in the collection of bald cypress, I live in Florida for 37 years.
Thanks
But I was looking for a development plan for a small whip.
I am well versed in the collection of bald cypress, I live in Florida for 37 years.
Thanks
19Mateo83
Masterpiece
I need to work my two this spring if that’s the sign. I had to stand them back up every couple weeks this yearWhen the wind keeps knocking 5he tree and container over at that age is a good time. Also an indication to up pot.
cheers
DSD sends
Srt8madness
Omono
Good news for you then, the principle is the same.
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
First just a couple thoughts for the holidays.
This forum is part of a big ocean of bonsai knowledge, experience, talent and opinions.
For me it’s like a bunch of small to large individual streams flowing in a huge river into the bonsai ocean.
We are all working together for the same thing. Creating the best bonsai possible.
Thank you all for your help, caring and sharing over the years. It has made me a better caregiver and artist.
Now back to our regular programming…
On when to prune a dawn redwood, or any redwood and get taper over the years. Here’s my tale.
Theoretically one should just let the tree blast out growth, so each sun kissed branch can contribute to creating the thickest trunk possible in the shortest amount of time. Yep, that’s true. absolutely.
Practically when doing so, Redwood trees will naturally get so big it becomes unwieldy to have in a collection. Tall, prone to fall, water sucking beasts, that can and will damage the other trees in a collection once your back is turned on them.…and need to be cut back and up potted… only to become tall, water sucking… etc etc, etc….
The first year my four 36” 4 year old redwood seedlings grew to exceed eight foot tall by late winter. As dug pot and trees were dug out of the ground in the middle of Feburary, three of four promptly fell over in a breeze. On top of some really (to me) promising trees.
That prompted the first up pot and cut back. Each year it was the same story. Last year two of the coastals turned rogue and decided it was more fun to grow sideways. Barely put on two foot, but lots of branches and got really heavy to boot. We loved it. Still needed uppotting, but very adorable. (This year’s uppotting needed strut wires for stability.)
This year they both turned rogue and went back to their old monsterous ways. Go figure.
This winter I’m looking for huge nursery pots for the next up pot, or will build some big boxes.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it
Best to All
DSD sends
This forum is part of a big ocean of bonsai knowledge, experience, talent and opinions.
For me it’s like a bunch of small to large individual streams flowing in a huge river into the bonsai ocean.
We are all working together for the same thing. Creating the best bonsai possible.
Thank you all for your help, caring and sharing over the years. It has made me a better caregiver and artist.
Now back to our regular programming…
On when to prune a dawn redwood, or any redwood and get taper over the years. Here’s my tale.
Theoretically one should just let the tree blast out growth, so each sun kissed branch can contribute to creating the thickest trunk possible in the shortest amount of time. Yep, that’s true. absolutely.
Practically when doing so, Redwood trees will naturally get so big it becomes unwieldy to have in a collection. Tall, prone to fall, water sucking beasts, that can and will damage the other trees in a collection once your back is turned on them.…and need to be cut back and up potted… only to become tall, water sucking… etc etc, etc….
The first year my four 36” 4 year old redwood seedlings grew to exceed eight foot tall by late winter. As dug pot and trees were dug out of the ground in the middle of Feburary, three of four promptly fell over in a breeze. On top of some really (to me) promising trees.
That prompted the first up pot and cut back. Each year it was the same story. Last year two of the coastals turned rogue and decided it was more fun to grow sideways. Barely put on two foot, but lots of branches and got really heavy to boot. We loved it. Still needed uppotting, but very adorable. (This year’s uppotting needed strut wires for stability.)
This year they both turned rogue and went back to their old monsterous ways. Go figure.
This winter I’m looking for huge nursery pots for the next up pot, or will build some big boxes.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it
Best to All
DSD sends
shimbrypaku
Shohin
I was asking for your expert advice on the development of dawn redwood, a detailed plan.
You have stated the my path is inferior to yours.
Please provide me with your expert knowledge and a detailed plan.
That’s all I’m asking for, that’s what this forum is all about, sharing knowledge,
Thanks and Merry Christmas
Srt8madness
Omono
I have provided you with the knowledge, you can reject basic horticulture or not. Take a gander around the forum, do some searches on DR and BC development. More foliage = more growth. Less foliage = less growth.
Your approach is fine if you're happy with it, but you shouldnt get all bent out of shape when others offer correct horticulture and development advice.
There is very little point to annually chopping a stick DR/BC in pot. If ground growing and obtaining 5+ feet of growth over a season, an annual chop could make sense just for space sake, as DSD mentions.
In the OPs case, he has what is essentially a seedling. Cutting it now does absolutely nothing design wise, other than reduce the next year's growth potential. That isn't my opinion, that is how plants work.
How do you deal with branches as you are growing out the tree? I am letting a DR grow out freely and was thinking I need to cut off some lower branches to prevent reverse taper. Just let it keep going freely or selectively prune off branches as I go?
At the risk of stepping in poo, I'll share my newbie experience with DR. I bought 3 DRs in early 2022 from a local nursery - they were all sticks in little bonsai pots with packed in potting soil. I kept one and gave each of my two sons one. My DR went into a larger container with bonsai soil in early spring with the roots splayed. My little guy liked his in the bonasi pot initially and my older son put his in a smallish nursery pot. My tree took off and my little got inspired, so we both uppoted our trees. His nebari is now incredible and it is in a grow box. Older son didn't really care for the tree and it fell over often as it grew until I put dumbells near it to hold it up. He cut it back and it was put into a grow box this season. His tree grew much less than the other two this season. Younger son is satisfied with the trunk at about 1.5" and will cut it back next season and grow it as a twin trunk. My tree is bonkers - it is well over 10 feet and the base is about 2.5" after just 2 seasons.
Without commenting on the actual development of trunks (taper. movement, scarring etc.), I don't see any debate on the fact that more foliage will produce more thickening. Walter Pall has a great video on this topic.
After a decision to grow my tree out further and in an attempt to sidestep the issues DSD described, I up-potted my DR this season into a massive grow box. It had been in a ten gallon nursery pot and I simply cut the pot off and build a 30X30X12" (on the inside) grow box around the tree. I filled the box with Bonsai Jack universal soil and a good deal of potting soil. Roots had grown into the ground before I cut the pot off, so it's rooted in the ground as well. Box has been completely mulched in using many bags of mulch a foot high and about a foot out in every direction (plus the mulch for the rest of the garden). Short of a massive tornado, I don't think this tree is going anywhere. But without all this buttress, falling over is a very real concern.
shimbrypaku
Shohin
You have provided nothing,
Your knowledge and expertise has not been established.
Show us a detailed plan that you have completed from starter plant to a finished dawn redwood Bonsai.
Pictures and progression photos are required.
Happy new year
Srt8madness
Omono
Or you could watch the video in post 53 and stop acting like a jackass. I don't pass myself off as an expert, but I know basic horticulture and how it intertwines with pre-bonsai development.
If you have evidence that removing foliage increases trunk caliper, I'd love to hear it.
shimbrypaku
Shohin
Nice,
Still looking for your Redwood Dawn development details.
Your words speak volumes of your character and knowledge.
Again,
I wish you a happy new year and please get some help.
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19Mateo83
Masterpiece
J/k shimbrypaku
Shohin
Srt8madness
Omono
Why are you waiting on something never offered? Doesn't take a expert to point out junk "advice".
For the record, my original post was to the thread poster, wasn't directed toward you or in reference to you. Only when you made your silly reply did I specifically point out why you were giving bad advice. But hey, if you think Walter Pall and others are wrong, I personally would love to hear how.
shimbrypaku
Shohin
Never ask anyone but you, I don’t remember adding or dropping another name.
Please take care of your self,
Thanks
Please take care of your self,
Thanks
