Curious and clueless custodian of a tree

[rockm]

No it's just from a very good family of Botanists and Horticulturists they still are. Well over 40, has a tap root. Jim

Again this is likely from a seed or cutting that those botanists planted or struck. I would be amazed if this tree were over 30 years old.

The roots are in desperate need of pruning. The tap root should have been removed a very long time ago.

 

[Basik]

Some surviving paraphernalia, I'm also in possession of orchids, like Paphiophidellum Insigne, Odontoglossum Cervantesii, Biffrenaria Harrisonea, Coleogyne Massangeana,

 

[Basik]

Again this is likely from a seed or cutting that those botanists planted or struck. I would be amazed if this tree were over 30 years old.

The roots are in desperate need of pruning. The tap root should have been removed a very long time ago.

What will pruning the roots achieve? Maybe I should of left to die. I'm not interested in an artificial looking plant with radial roots that meld together because of a Japanese fetish

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

What will pruning the roots achieve? Maybe I should of left to die. I'm not interested in an artificial looking plant with radial roots that meld together because of a Japanese fetish

For the purpose of bonsai, the tap root is undesirable because it doesn't allow easily for radial roots, which  are desirable in bonsai. If you're referring to the "pancake" style root flare as undesirable for you, i can relate. It's not my cup o' tea, either. But in nature, you do find radial roots frequently running along the surface at the bottom of the trunk, just not fused together. A tap root doesn't fit well in a traditional bonsai pot. Even if you don't want nebari at all and plant the tree with roots below the surface, the tap root might actually push the tree out of the substrate. But I don't think it's something you will need to worry about until you restore the health of the tree first, but I could be way off base, too.

 

[Attmos]

What will pruning the roots achieve? Maybe I should of left to die.

Don't let all of this get you down. These people really are trying to help, even if it seems like negativity.

Start simply. Maybe just pull it out and cut the tap root. Take some pictures before returning it to the box, and come back for advice on the next step. You can do this.

 

[rockm]

What will pruning the roots achieve? Maybe I should have left to die. I'm not interested in an artificial looking plant with radial roots that meld together because of a Japanese fetish

Then at in earth did you post this IN A BONSAI FORUM? Your obvious annoyance at “artificial” looking fetish trees” shows you don’t really understand what you’re talking about and are pleased with your ignorance.

FWIW, Bonsai is a way of cultivating trees. Part of that cultivation is the constant process of renewing the root system of these trees. This rejuvenation done through regular root pruning, enable trees to live in containers for centuries. Pruning them forces new feeder roots from what is an unproductive transfer root. In other words root pruning forces the tree to make more efficient roots. The roots on your tree don’t have many feeder roots. Those thick roots you think are impressive don’t absorb nutrients from the soil. Only the finely branched feeder roots at their ends so that.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

Then at in earth did you post this IN A BONSAI FORUM? Your obvious annoyance at “artificial” looking fetish trees” shows you don’t really understand what you’re talking about and are pleased with your ignorance.

Tbh, this is how I began this journey. I'm still pretty ignorant, but now I almost know how ignorant I am.
I think sometimes we newbies are ignorant in our fresh zeal for what seems exciting. And, if you watch and believe enough YT vids, also a very quick and easy hobby. That's why I come here: to get in-your-face truth and facts, where veterans like you shoot straight, even if it's not "nice." I get sound advice (which usually contradicts the fiction found on YT). I actually appreciate very much your sometimes brutal approach to giving advice. No hand holding, no sugar coating. Just raw, bare reality.

 

[BrightsideB]

The roots swirling in a circle is artificial. I’ve never seen that in nature that I can recall. You don’t have to make your tree look artificial. Many nice bonsai look very similar to a very old tree seen in nature. Maybe they are a little more clean in the silhouette but you don’t have to see it black and white.

 

[rockm]

Tbh, this is how I began this journey. I'm still pretty ignorant, but now I almost know how ignorant I am.
I think sometimes we newbies are ignorant in our fresh zeal for what seems exciting. And, if you watch and believe enough YT vids, also a very quick and easy hobby. That's why I come here: to get in-your-face truth and facts, where veterans like you shoot straight, even if it's not "nice." I get sound advice (which usually contradicts the fiction found on YT). I actually appreciate very much your sometimes brutal approach to giving advice. No hand holding, no sugar coating. Just raw, bare reality.

I don’t think I’m brutal. I just try to tell the truth. Posters like this one who don’t understand bonsai sometimes post mediocre to awful bonsai that they think are awesome. It has been happening for as long as there have been internet bonsai forums (and I’ve been on bonsai forums since the Internet became the internet). Someone looking for complements in their “historic” or venerable whatever bonsai run into people who actually know bonsai then get all pissy when instructed otherwise.

 

[Attmos]

Tbh, this is how I began this journey. I'm still pretty ignorant, but now I almost know how ignorant I am.
I think sometimes we newbies are ignorant in our fresh zeal for what seems exciting. And, if you watch and believe enough YT vids, also a very quick and easy hobby. That's why I come here: to get in-your-face truth and facts, where veterans like you shoot straight, even if it's not "nice." I get sound advice (which usually contradicts the fiction found on YT). I actually appreciate very much your sometimes brutal approach to giving advice. No hand holding, no sugar coating. Just raw, bare reality.

That's what I was trying to say. It might sound negative, as a beginner, but people really are trying to help. I too was overwhelmed by what appeared to be criticism, until I learned a little more about it.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

If you acknowledge youre clueless, and then ask for but refuse advice from people who arent clueless, where are you going to get advice from?

Watch nigel saunders videos on ficus... he doesnt do any of that "artificial" stuff and he has very nice natural looking ficus.

can you give a reference to the size if the tree. There is no way that tree is 40yrs old. This one is like... 6... and has never left the pot except for the occasional root work.

 

[Attmos]

If you acknowledge youre clueless, and then ask for but refuse advice from people who arent clueless, where are you going to get advice from?

Watch nigel saunders videos on ficus... he doesnt do any of that "artificial" stuff and he has very nice natural looking ficus.

can you give a reference to the size if the tree. There is no way that tree is 40yrs old. This one is like... 6... and has never left the pot except for the occasional root work.

View attachment 601391

Is it not possible that having been ignored for its entire life in that box (say...40 years) produced a stunted and sickly tree with a root structure that is slowly strangling the life out of it?

 

[rockm]

FWW. Here are two ficus bonsai that about 50 years old. Begun in the 1970s in Hawaii and Fla. by bonsai growers ther and donated to the National Bonsai & Penjing Museum. They are extremely healthy and vigorous trees. I volunteer ther at the collection so I see them a lot they’re large two to three feet across but note their pots. They are very shallow yet the trees remain healthy and no knotted thick roots or tap roots.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Never knew people cared where seed came from

I have trees from my Mom's yard that I grew from seed.
Also sowed a seed from a JM the MIL's house on the day my niece was born, so I have a JM that's exactly her age.

Sometimes, they can have sentimental value.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Is it not possible that having been ignored for its entire life in that box (say...40 years) produced a stunted and sickly tree with a root structure that is slowly strangling the life out of it?

In my opinion, something uncared for and ignored is unlikely to make it 40 years in a pot.

 

[Cajunrider]

In my opinion, something uncared for and ignored is unlikely to make it 40 years in a pot.

The most likely scenario for such a tree.
1. A hardy species.
2. Minimal care by people with little knowledge about bonsai: Routine water and random fertilization and little else. No repot, no root prune.

 

[pandacular]

Someday I hope we realize a public conception of bonsai art where the quality of the tree is a selling point rather than unverifiable histories

 

[Orion_metalhead]

So hypothetically, if the owner WANTS circling roots and a natural look, how can we go about creating a tree that is healthy, but with circling roots... It would still take plenty of routine root pruning to generate root ramification along the circling root and training the circling root into a more natural running root style. the styling would basically end up with a canopy like that which rockm showed photos of as this is the natural style ficus grow in - as an umbrella.

This would be best done in a proper bonsai mix heavy in akadama probably to aid in moisture retention. fertilization would follow standard protocol. I would probably upsize the pot 30% to help in thickening the trunk in proportion to the roots so it doesnt look like one long snake...

The tree's provenance doesnt impact its care and the care we have been suggesting is the way forward irregardless of aesthetic choices.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

I don’t think I’m brutal. I just try to tell the truth.

That's fair. "Brutal" may be a little too dramatic a word. But your approach is to tell it like it is, and that is the best way forward for an ignoramus like myself. If I choose not to listen to seasoned advice, that's on me. It doesn't matter how the good advice is delivered.

 

[Attmos]

So hypothetically, if the owner WANTS circling roots and a natural look, how can we go about creating a tree that is healthy, but with circling roots... It would still take plenty of routine root pruning to generate root ramification along the circling root and training the circling root into a more natural running root style. the styling would basically end up with a canopy like that which rockm showed photos of as this is the natural style ficus grow in - as an umbrella.

This would be best done in a proper bonsai mix heavy in akadama probably to aid in moisture retention. fertilization would follow standard protocol. I would probably upsize the pot 30% to help in thickening the trunk in proportion to the roots so it doesnt look like one long snake...

The tree's provenance doesnt impact its care and the care we have been suggesting is the way forward irregardless of aesthetic choices.

I absolutely love this sentiment and the detail.