Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Agreed Fredman.
Good Day
Anthony
Good Day
Anthony
Composting for Bonsai? (Latest Podcast, Modern Soil Science - Mirai)
- Thread starter RobertB
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BrightsideB
Omono
Did you try using that mycorrhiza innoculation product on your bonsai? It's been an interest of mine to try some of the products out there. I know the fungi in one of my maples pots has a good symbiotic relationship. Due to the vigor, health, and the fact I get mushrooms in it every year. I am also growing mint in it lol. But it's amazing how well they can grow with the right type of fungi present, and other microorganisms.Back to business then
I just picked up this video.
This is what I have in my vegetable garden and I now want it in my bonsai pots as well.
For the first time ever I didn't work my vegetable garden soil. I only topped it with my homemade compost and a layer of wood chips ontop of that. Then planted in the compost. I think I watered 4 times the whole summer (and we had a scorcher) and only "fertilized" twice with a good hydrolised fish emulsion. That's to feed the organisms...not the plants (i did not use a drop of organic fertilizer).
Even though the food web life in the soil is still young, I had the best plants I ever had. They grew lush like i've not had before. The chips on the top was mostly bonedry during summer, but the compost and soil beneath that stayed cool and moist.
Imagine having a life supporting web inside a bonsai pot. Much less watering and almost no fertilizers....
fredman
Masterpiece
No I didn't use an innoculant. I just tried to do bonsai with organic soil. That didn't go to well. It works in a big pot, but there are to many variables that works against a bonsai pot.
I almost lost a few bonsai...a few times. The soil (compost, worm castings mixed with pumice and bark) dries out quickly and gets hydrophobic. Its very difficult to control the moisture level. The trees grew badly all year.
Microbes works well for me in the vegetable garden and with the fruit trees, but i'll stick with an open soil in my bonsai pots.
BrightsideB
Omono
Cool! Thanks for the info! I am working on getting my tree's larger by putting them in larger potting pots with a mixture of lava, bark, rock, and slightly sifted compost. It seems to be working well here in north georgia. I know the conifers seem to love it. I can't wait to start the transition into bonsai soil and pots. Bonsai soil and pots are just so expensive, I've just been collecting my soil and pots for when I'm ready.
River's Edge
Masterpiece
I am working on getting my pines larger as well! Grow boxes, inorganic soil, organic and inorganic ferts, beginning of year seven for this group of 84 Pines. Several repots and sacrifice reductions. Current size average 2 inch trunks and six feet tall, not counting spring candles! JBP and JRP. The JRP tend to be thinner and more elongated in growth!
Primary fertilizer from year one has been organic. ( Neem Meal, Fish Fert ( Alaska brand), Bone meal, Blood Meal ). Inorganic soil combo. Lava, pumice, akadama, granite grit.
Container grown only, small pots, colanders, grow boxes! Main restrictions to growth are root work during repots, changing leaders for taper and movement.
Modern Soil Science, air, water, ferts, sunlight! Let the trees convert the elements
If they were ground grown, would be thicker and taller but no transition for movement or taper and less root work would be established. Simply a choice!Attachments
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Has anyone heard any more from Ryan about his foray into using compost tea?
I was listening to one of his recent podcasts (or maybe it was a live stream, not sure) and he mentioned that he got into doing some things last year that didn't work out or didn't seem to be beneficial. He didn't say what they were but it left me wondering if it might be related to the compost tea.
I was listening to one of his recent podcasts (or maybe it was a live stream, not sure) and he mentioned that he got into doing some things last year that didn't work out or didn't seem to be beneficial. He didn't say what they were but it left me wondering if it might be related to the compost tea.
PiñonJ
Omono
Yes, it didn’t work out at all. It threw off the nutrient balance (can’t remember if it was excess potassium, or phosphorus) and screwed up the microbiome in the bonsai containers, impacting the root systems. He stopped using it completely and used Dr. Earth Life to help the beneficial microbes recover.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Thanks for the update! Do you know how many trees he applied compost tea to? I don't mean an exact number, of course, but did he just try a few test trees or did he apply to a significant part of his collection? I saw the video where he and Troy were applying it and it did look like they had quite a bit of the tea which could mean lots of trees were dosed.
BrightsideB
Omono
Those are some beautiful pines! When do you start to style them and transplant them into bonsai pots?I am working on getting my pines larger as well! Grow boxes, inorganic soil, organic and inorganic ferts, beginning of year seven for this group of 84 Pines. Several repots and sacrifice reductions. Current size average 2 inch trunks and six feet tall, not counting spring candles! JBP and JRP. The JRP tend to be thinner and more elongated in growth!
Primary fertilizer from year one has been organic. ( Neem Meal, Fish Fert ( Alaska brand), Bone meal, Blood Meal ). Inorganic soil combo. Lava, pumice, akadama, granite grit.
Container grown only, small pots, colanders, grow boxes! Main restrictions to growth are root work during repots, changing leaders for taper and movement.
Modern Soil Science, air, water, ferts, sunlight! Let the trees convert the elements
River's Edge
Masterpiece
It Depends, when I decide that the trunk thickness is suitable for the branch placement and that particular tree! The apical leader is reduced for the final time and the focus is on the lower portion. This will normally be after at least two major apical leader changes for movement and taper, sometimes four or five! They stay in grow boxes or Anderson Flats until primary and secondary branching is in place! Shohin trees probably 10-15 years! Larger go longer!
The Bonsai pot only comes when I am into ramification of foliage and tertiary branches! Here is an example of one getting closer to a bonsai pot. Note: still under development in my view! Lots of cutback and bud back still needed to fill and reduce foliage! This tree is about 18 years from seed!
Attachments
BrightsideB
Omono
That's nice! Those needles really got smaller. So you get new buds once you cut the apical leader down. Do you end up cutting 5ft off at once? I just ask because I don't have any experience with pines and hear they can be difficult.
River's Edge
Masterpiece
Some do, I don't.
I prefer to stage the reduction on the theory that several opportunities are better than one to get a response. Plus the tree gets a chance to adapt to the foliage reduction. I always prefer to keep my trees on the vigorous side rather than risking a period of extended recovery!
I judge on the basis of foliage balance trying to keep a reasonable reduction over one reduction. Say no more than 1/3 at a time for a rough general guide.
This also gives the lower portion of foliage the chance to strengthen and take over gradually.
Cannot say which approach is better as I tend to stick with what works for me
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PiñonJ
Omono
fredman
Masterpiece
As I understand, compost tea can vary in its biome. It all depends how the compost was made. Hot and cold made (and what it is made of) composts vary greatly in its fungal or bacterial populations, it can sometimes be over populated, or devoid of the right microbes. It can be a hit or miss if its not done right.
If the compost is left to age on the ground then the balance of microbes will correct itself over time.
Best way to know what is present in the ground, pot and compost is to get a soil analysis and see what microbes are present and which ones is absent.
If the compost is left to age on the ground then the balance of microbes will correct itself over time.
Best way to know what is present in the ground, pot and compost is to get a soil analysis and see what microbes are present and which ones is absent.
SC1989
Shohin
Late to the party 2 cents. Trees have grown better since i started innoculating with mychorrizae . Great white 
for killer roots. Fox farm Light warrior seedling mix is great.dries out fast. I throw it on top of any environment that is lifeless with a bit of compost and bam,, happy roots. It has mychorrizae and humic acid. The fungi seem to help control moisture and breathability to the soil. They will help feed your plants . All my stuff is super young so I'm using osmocote and earth worm casting poop water sludge once a week and I will never use straight chemical ferts with inorganic substrate alone. Better recharge the rhizosphere when doing massive root work. Any tree I had in straight inorganic , just exploded with roots after mixing a handful of light warrior into the top half inch of soil( depending on pot size. Better bonsai by beneficial bacteria . I noticed a difference cause I'm 2 springs into the hobby and have seen trees suffer and recover quite quickly
for killer roots. Fox farm Light warrior seedling mix is great.dries out fast. I throw it on top of any environment that is lifeless with a bit of compost and bam,, happy roots. It has mychorrizae and humic acid. The fungi seem to help control moisture and breathability to the soil. They will help feed your plants . All my stuff is super young so I'm using osmocote and earth worm casting poop water sludge once a week and I will never use straight chemical ferts with inorganic substrate alone. Better recharge the rhizosphere when doing massive root work. Any tree I had in straight inorganic , just exploded with roots after mixing a handful of light warrior into the top half inch of soil( depending on pot size. Better bonsai by beneficial bacteria . I noticed a difference cause I'm 2 springs into the hobby and have seen trees suffer and recover quite quicklyPotawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Honestly can see no need for it when quicker easier way to get there presently available
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.leus
Yamadori
I have questions about this statement. I don’t think it’s true.
fredman
Masterpiece
Its true alright. I have to admit though... little to zero is an overstatement (that was a knee jerk statement). Less nutrients will be more accurate.
I see fruits and vegetables very much like children. The child that has been brought up in a toxic environment, will for the most part carry within it those toxins going forward in life.
A fruit/vegetable that has been grown in sterile soil and was kept alive via chemical fertilizer and during its growth period it was dowsed with an array of herbicide, pesticide, fungicide sprays ...and then dipped in another chemical concoction to enhance its shelf life, can't give the same amount of nutrition as those next door in the organic section.
leus
Yamadori
Again, have questions about this statement. I haven’t seen proof of these kind of assertions anywhere. The fact that all of the doomsday predictions about humanity dying of hunger before 1970, then the 2000s, and so on resulted to be false don’t help much. I love the theory about carbon sequestration by soil and bacteria actually feeding the trees, and I’ve seen the NASA models about carbon being released by tilling, and I’ve seen some of the documentaries about farming on covered soil, and I hope that that guy doing TED talks about overcoming desertification by moving farming animals around is right, but the science looks flimsy.
Please don’t think I deny your assertions. I want to be convinced, I just haven’t yet, and all I ask for is evidence.
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