Collecting a Hawthorn

[MacSpook]

I've identified a wild European hawthorn that I want to collect in the next couple of weeks. Today I spent about 2 hours trimming it down and reducing the growth to a size that I can hopefully bring home without causing too much trauma to it. I will be using a soil mix that Tony Tickle recommends for potting yamadori hawthorn and I will be closely following his care advice including the black bag method. A lot of the info I've read on collecting says get rid of what you don't need. So I'm trying to get a good balance between reduction and keeping enough of he branches for potential foliage growth to support the root system as it recovers.


Here it is before cutting back. It's not a great picture but you can see how moss covered and congested it was.






And here it is after cutting back





It's about 3 feet at the tallest point. I'm not sure about removing the branch to the right now or wait until it's (hopefully) recovered.

Mac

 

[leatherback]

I am sorry to day but.. That tree had SO MUCH more potential. Why collect nice aged and craggy trees if you are going to chop all off!?

 

[Ohmy222]

nice material, slightly straight. I can't imagine having to dig that sucker up though. If you could layer that top section that would awesome. I tried a US hawthorn layer last year and had no luck.

 

[MacSpook]

I am sorry to day but.. That tree had SO MUCH more potential. Why collect nice aged and craggy trees if you are going to chop all off!?

After carefully removing as much of the moss as I could, to my (untrained) eye there was no definition to the branching. Some were like corkscrews, others were taking a U bend back to the trunk, others were crossing over each other and they were all tangled together. Any time I tried to cut/separate/untangle them, bits were breaking off as they were so brittle. So I decided to bite the bullet and that's why there's not a lot left. There's another better hawthorn not far from this one but decided to not take he best one (yet). Maybe next year.

nice material, slightly straight. I can't imagine having to dig that sucker up though. If you could layer that top section that would awesome.

It's growing on top of the remains of a very old limestone wall so I'm hoping it will be less digging and more removing the stones to reveal the roots.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I am sorry to day but.. That tree had SO MUCH more potential. Why collect nice aged and craggy trees if you are going to chop all off!?

Not really. If it had potential before, it would still have it after being reduced to its bones.

To the OP: cut those long branches shorter as you’ll need to remake them anyway. Find the best trunk line (movement and taper) and remove the rest. Get it growing again in captivity, and rebuild new branches that also have movement and taper.

Ideas to consider:

 

[MacSpook]

To the OP: cut those long branches shorter as you’ll need to remake them anyway. Find the best trunk line (movement and taper) and remove the rest. Get it growing again in captivity, and rebuild new branches that also have movement and taper.

I was thinking about a cascade style similar to your 1st suggestion so I could chop the branch on the right before collection and keep the main upper trunk until the roots are established

 

[Shibui]

I've had no problem collecting European Hawthorn which grow as weeds down here. Even with major root reduction and significant branch reduction they still recover though not always produce new shoots in the ideal places.
Advice from @Brian Van Fleet is pretty much what I'd do.

Growing on the old wall may not be such a good thing. Roots are likely to be long, down through the rocks to reach the ground below. Hopefully there is enough humus and moss to retain some moisture to stimulate feeder roots among the rocks so you don't need to take huge long roots.
Even though I have not been able to strike cuttings of hawthorn they do grow easily from root cuttings and transplanted trees have recovered even when 90% or more roots have been cut off so I would not worry unduly about shortening roots if necessary but all that will depend on what you find as you start excavating.

Try not to get fixated on one style yet. State of the roots and which branches sprout will dictate what the possible future will be. Decisions on collected trees do not have to be taken in a hurry. I'd say you will have a couple of years to make those decisions as it seems to take a few years for hawthorn to recover and begin growing strong. After that development of any new branches and apex is also quite slow so allow yourself a few years for this project.

 

[MacSpook]

Growing on the old wall may not be such a good thing. Roots are likely to be long, down through the rocks to reach the ground below. Hopefully there is enough humus and moss to retain some moisture to stimulate feeder roots among the rocks so you don't need to take huge long roots.
Even though I have not been able to strike cuttings of hawthorn they do grow easily from root cuttings and transplanted trees have recovered even when 90% or more roots have been cut off so I would not worry unduly about shortening roots if necessary but all that will depend on what you find as you start excavating.

I think the wall was more or less a pile of rubble before the tree started to grow there. And the tree was fairly short in relation to the trunk before I made any cuts so my hope is that the roots don't go too deep.

In this picture you can see the stones from the wall in the background poking up through the grass.

 

[MacSpook]

Decisions on collected trees do not have to be taken in a hurry. I'd say you will have a couple of years to make those decisions as it seems to take a few years for hawthorn to recover and begin growing strong. After that development of any new branches and apex is also quite slow so allow yourself a few years for this project.

Haha... I'm 56 now and I know (if it survives) this tree will outlive me but I'd like to see it looking good before I go.

Mac

 

[colley614]

Have you made up your soil mixture yet? I can't remember what Tony Tickle recommended pumice (pine bark) topped with sphagnum moss? I know Harry Harrington suggests making up the soil well in advance and letting it age. The black bag trick definitely works BTW.

 

[MacSpook]

Screenshot from one of Tony's videos.

 

[TN_Jim]

Have you made up your soil mixture yet? I can't remember what Tony Tickle recommended pumice (pine bark) topped with sphagnum moss? I know Harry Harrington suggests making up the soil well in advance and letting it age. The black bag trick definitely works BTW.

In part two of this relatively recent podcast I believe Harry says he puts newly collected deciduous trees in straight pumice. I seriously could have missed something but think he said -collect, plastic bag to retain moisture, home, next morning clean field soil and into pumice. This may be a newer approach, dunno.

Makes perfect sense to me with some pine bark in there, to each..

Podcast looks like this:

 

[colley614]

In part two of this relatively recent podcast I believe Harry says he puts newly collected deciduous trees in straight pumice. I seriously could have missed something but think he said -collect, plastic bag to retain moisture, home, next morning clean field soil and into pumice. This may be a newer approach, dunno.

Makes perfect sense to me with some pine bark in there, to each..

Podcast looks like this:
View attachment 416122

It wouldn't surprise me if he did say that. I've noticed him change his tune on a lot of his soil mixes since he's been using (selling) probio products on his website. Most of his earlier articles state he uses Molar clay top dressed with a fine layer of akadama. But now he uses akadama, grit and pumice because of the antibiotic effect of molar clay.

 

[MacSpook]

I can't say I'm a fan of Harry Harrington. I don't know if it's my learning style, or his teaching style but I find him difficult to listen to. Before halfway through a video, I switch off because I'm not retaining the information.

 

[Dermot]

Did you get this potted up after? Please keep us updated on this in the months ahead

 

[MacSpook]

Did you get this potted up after? Please keep us updated on this in the months ahead

Just waiting for the last ingredient delivery for the soil to be ready.



If it goes to plan, will be digging it up next weekend.

 

[MacSpook]

The dig wasn't too difficult. As I had hoped, it was mostly a case of removing the large stones and old roofing slate to expose the roots. The minimal soil that was there fell away from the roots without a lot of encouragement.










It was out of the ground and bagged up in less than an hour.






Box prepared.






Tied down with 4mm wire.









Mac

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Gnarly. Good luck with it.

 

[MacSpook]

Gnarly. Good luck with it.

Thank you.

 

[Dermot]

Very nice. What mix did you go with after?

I've potted up 4 over the last few weeks. I've used a slightly different mix for each. It'll be interesting to compare the root growth if they pull through.