Climate change and bonsai

[HorseloverFat]

The Lake is up ain't it?

I haven't seen it so deep in...ever, and it's not going down!
I've seen models that put all of Illinois and some of the surrounding submerged.

That's what second floors are for!

Fitting to be a need for underwater welders to stilt up these houses to the foundation!

Truth truth....

There is climate change in the news...

And there is climate change where the news, us, and life, doesn't even exist anymore.

Sorce

Hehe! Adaptation! Scuba Welders and Stilt-Condos!



(and yes.. The lake is definitely UP.)

 

[Forsoothe!]

I’ll reply with data. The only thing that is not biased

So, speak to the energy it takes to change climate and how man can exert the amount necessary to change some part of the climate, anywhere. Speak to evidence of where it has been done. DO NOT claim that the changes that have taken place are evidence; speak to where mankind has intended to change climate and has taken action to do so, and has succeeded. Your chart is a record of events. It is no more proof of anything other than that change has occurred. Duh! Climate has never been static. If mankind can change climate, please do so, I'm tired of shoveling snow. I'd like it to rain every 3rd day for about an hour spring and summer, like between 3 and 4 AM EST. And while you're at it, It shouldn't get colder than 25°F in winter. And when it snows I'd like the winds to be mostly easterly so my driveway doesn't get piled up in drifts that are harder to shovel.

Please don't tell me that all weather is a function of geography, and that in basic Geography 101 you have to draw maps and describe the weather that will occur on your fictitious continent. That would be too much science for my little brain to handle. Get on it, I'll wait.

 

[HorseloverFat]

So, speak to the energy it takes to change climate and how man can exert the amount necessary to change some part of the climate, anywhere. Speak to evidence of where it has been done. DO NOT claim that the changes that have taken place are evidence; speak to where mankind has intended to change climate and has taken action to do so, and has succeeded. Your chart is a record of events. It is no more proof of anything other than that change has occurred. Duh! Climate has never been static. If mankind can change climate, please do so, I'm tired of shoveling snow. I'd like it to rain every 3rd day for about an hour spring and summer, like between 3 and 4 AM EST. And while you're at it, It shouldn't get colder than 25°F in winter. And when it snows I'd like the winds to be mostly easterly so my driveway doesn't get piled up in drifts that are harder to shovel.

Please don't tell me that all weather is a function of geography, and that in basic Geography 101 you have to draw maps and describe the weather that will occur on your fictitious continent. That would be too much science for my little brain to handle. Get on it, I'll wait.

Not “getting in on this”.. just reminiscing of classes... I remember drawing those diagrams.. I love homework.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Some people want to discuss how the changes we are experiencing now affect the bonsai hobby. And yes I experience those changes myself as well. That's an interesting topic.

But a topic like that is not possible here because of climate-denial posts. You make this impossible. I'm not interested in discussing about your talking points, they're the standard list that's been debunked over and over. It's easy enough to find the relevant information yourself, if you're open to that.

Debunk them. Debunk one. Prove you can change something. Change the course of a hurricane. Make it rain. Yes, you can and it's costly and not worth the candle. Do something that you can say, "I'm going to blah blah blah, and I'll watch for it." I may be here a long time awaiting.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Also... gotta say that people that are “close to the earth”... commune with nature often... are born of earth and sky... THOSE people hear the “answers” from the Earth herself...And KNOW the realities (no specific “SIDE”)... these people ALSO understand that unless you have a personal relationship with “Mother Earth”.. everything else is MOSTLY speculative and arguments for argument’s sake... those people most commonly will just OBSERVE these proceedings.


Go out and listen... watch... observe.. you shall find your answers..

 

[ShadyStump]

I'm a born devil's advocate.

I will say from my observations of the politics and media surrounding the topic that it is a bit over blown as far as the direct short term effects, especially the idea of carbon emissions being the major culprit. There's much more data supporting urban heat batteries causing microclimate changes that affect regions down wind, and there are ALLOT of those major urban centers now days.

Also, I noticed some years ago that I was getting sunburned faster than I ever recalled happening before, so I checked the UV index. Maxed out. Dug in and found that the average UV index is higher world wide, and has been climbing steadily for a century but jumped up in recent years. Dug some more, and turns out the earth's magnetic field is weakening. We're headed fast for a polar excursion- a magnetic field event during which the poles may flip but in the process we'll essentially have no magnetosphere.
I'll try and dig up some of the old papers and articles I read on it.

 

[HorseloverFat]

I'm a born devil's advocate.

I will say from my observations of the politics and media surrounding the topic that it is a bit over blown as far as the direct short term effects, especially the idea of carbon emissions being the major culprit. There's much more data supporting urban heat batteries causing microclimate changes that affect regions down wind, and there are ALLOT of those major urban centers now days.

Also, I noticed some years ago that I was getting sunburned faster than I ever recalled happening before, so I checked the UV index. Maxed out. Dug in and found that the average UV index is higher world wide, and has been climbing steadily for a century but jumped up in recent years. Dug some more, and turns out the earth's magnetic field is weakening. We're headed fast for a polar excursion- a magnetic field event during which the poles may flip but in the process we'll essentially have no magnetosphere.
I'll try and dig up some of the old papers and articles I read on it.

I LIKE your moves.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

We won't have too much trouble, our grandkids will be really pissed off at us.

 

[leatherback]

But a topic like that is not possible here because of climate-denial posts. You make this impossible. I'm not interested in discussing about your talking points, they're the standard list that's been debunked over and over. It's easy enough to find the relevant information yourself, if you're open to that.

Save your breath. Some people see the worl climate and straight away bring out their political agenda, instead of looking at what was actually the question: Not what the causes are of climate change, or whether it is even changing. But on the premise of climate change: How will it affect keeping bonsai. Predictable here I must say.

 

[JoeR]

I’ll reply with data. The only thing that is not biased

Lol.

For old style mercury thermometers to be accurate, two things are critical in calibrating them. One, a perfect vacuum. Two, elevation- being made at sea level. Do you think all mercury thermometers were perfectly made and accurate in the 1800's? Probably not. Thats not to say there is intentional bias, but there is simply always minute-severe bias. Does it always impact of the data? Nope! But take data, especially older data, with 'a grain of salt'


I was listening to bonsai Asymmetry, and one of their guests was saying that their island near Spain (can't remember who the guest was or what island), and they said they no longer have winter whereas they used to have snow for a week.

So climate for sure has always, and always will, change. Some of it is anthro driven, some natural cause. Dont fall into the climate crisis panic.

We have bigger more imminent problems than carbon emissions that are MUCH easier to solve. Plastic, industrial waste (electric car batteries, windmill grave sites, oil and chemicals from cars, hormones and drugs in the water, etc etc.)

Unequivocal is a strong word...


Bottom line: no severe change for us and our trees will be present in the immediate future for the majority

 

[Clicio]

For us in the tropics it will be catastrophic alright. We barely have any winters now, and trees suffer.

 

[Zach Smith]

Fear is the key concept. If you can generate fear among the populace you can get them to surrender both their freedom and their money. It has worked beautifully, and will continue to do so. The late Michael Crichton wrote a brilliant novel titled State of Fear. Well worth the read.

 

[leatherback]

Fear is the key concept. If you can generate fear among the populace you can get them to surrender both their freedom and their money. It has worked beautifully, and will continue to do so. The late Michael Crichton wrote a brilliant novel titled State of Fear. Well worth the read.

and what do you think about the question that was posed?

 

[Mike Corazzi]

MERRY CRISIS AND HAPPY NEW FEAR !!!!

 

[Gustavo Martins]

The ozone hole. There you have evidence that the banning of CFCs has had an effect

 

[AZbonsai]

I’ll reply with data. The only thing that is not biased

Who collected it and how?

 

[Zach Smith]

and what do you think about the question that was posed?

I'm not going to argue with the manmade global warming/climate change adherents anymore. The theory, which is a non-testable hypothesis and can't actually be considered as science, has been ably counter-argued by some very smart people. But the world doesn't work on rational argument anymore, so we have to move forward in the new paradigm. Most of the bonsai I kill are not done in by climate change....

 

[PA_Penjing]

The changes are notable, when I was a kid the Lehigh valley was AHS heat zone 4, we're up to 6 now. But it's impossible for anyone to say what will happen next, models can only factor in so many variables. I can also tell you as someone who went to college for environmental science that the subject can't be unpacked and done justice through a couple sentences. There's a lot going on with the climate currently, as we know it's always changing. And like just wing it mentioned, current science has been telling us we staved off an incoming ice age. They happen very consistently, if you are unaware of this, debating climate change isn't your bag. As @ShadyStump mentioned, the poles flipping also happens consistently, if you are unaware of magnetic poles reversing, climate change debates aren't for you. Emissions and pollution getting pulled to the polar extremes of the earth? There is so much to know that even I won't bother debating anyone on the topic, actually I won't debate anyone on anything, personality trait I guess. We'll just have to see what happens next.

Anyone who tells you that this or that will definitely happen to the globe is probably not a source worth listening to, they can only speculate. Fear mongering is definitely a media move to make money.

Climate change denial is definitely corporate propaganda that's spread to protect their billions at our expenses.

All we can do is keep our own records and look at what we know. I have witnessed my city grow warmer every year from zone 6a to 6b and heat zone 4 to 6. The last ten years were the hottest years in recorded history. Those are facts. You can draw whatever conclusions you want from them, and of course different personality types will react differently. And these days personal opinions seem to rank hand in hand with facts so...hahah

To answer the question I got into bonsai when I was completely impoverished, and it would take a lot more than financial hardship to make me drop the hobby. The models "say" that by the time I'm an old man my area will be usda zone 7b and heat zone 7 to 8 IF nothing is done. So fortunately I will be able to keep doing my thing. I don't live near the coast so i'm good to go. Granted NJ is paying some folks a pretty penny to buy back their flooded beach front to make hurricane buffers/dunes. Wouldn't mind that either

 

[JoeR]

Anyone who tells you that this or that will definitely happen to the globe is probably not a source worth listening to, they can only speculate. Fear mongering is definitely a media move to make money.

Here lies the problem: a journal article will state "based on the collected data, at the current rate ocean pH will drop to X by the year 2XXX". Okay, fine. Then, some journalist or whatever will share the paper, and say holy cow!! Our oceans WILL be too acidic for crustaceans to make shells and we will all die!!". And then Karen the social justice warrior will share it to her audience on FB.

There is a huge disconnection between the scientific community and the general public. This is a massive problem worsened by the many people who perpetuate misinformation among social media platforms.

I read something a friend shared on FB that said "scientists in China made a t-rex from a chicken embryo!!" Read the article. It was a single remnant gene that they activated and the embryo formed teeth. Like chickens used to have. That is not a t-rex, and no where in the actual article did it even mention the t rex.

In this day and age it is ridiculous that so many people depend on others to spoon feed them information, when everything is accessible from a fancy little gadget in your pocket. With a little effort you can, and should, make your own opinion based on any data you read.

 

[JoeR]

I'm not going to argue with the manmade global warming/climate change adherents anymore. The theory, which is a non-testable hypothesis and can't actually be considered as science, has been ably counter-argued by some very smart people. But the world doesn't work on rational argument anymore, so we have to move forward in the new paradigm. Most of the bonsai I kill are not done in by climate change....

I'm somewhere in the middle of the climate change spectrum. Obviously the emissions from millions of cars driving around every day cant be a good thing. But "renewable energy" is a complete, utter sham. If we had a simple solution we wouldn't be in this situation would we?

Can this level of change really occur in the 135 years that have passed since automobiles and so forth were invented?

Anyway, ive read papers going both ways. Most of the anti climate change papers get smothered in the process by peers or lack of funding. But this is something I think about often, thought you'd enjoy (assuming their estimated volumes (of the ocean,air) are even remotely close)