Circling roots-How to handle them?

[Clicio]

Hi folks,


Sometimes the answers to simple questions are so ambiguous, or even contradictory, I think it is better to ask here first.
Every time I find circling roots tightly packed around a pot, I get the impression that even being as careful as possible untangling them is not the best approach.
It can take hours, the roots get damaged anyway, they can dry fast during the process, and in the end... I cut the hanging half of the rootball off.
Should I simply cut the circling ones from top to bottom and then untangle the remaining of the inside of the rootball? What is the danger of cutting them down?
Image below illustrates the issue.

 

[0soyoung]

Just cut them all off by slicing/snipping under the layer of roots that were circling along the substrate/soil-pot interface. Then just loosen the outside of the 'ball' that remains - voila!

 

[Gustavo Martins]

I usually cut the bulk of the root mass in half and only then start combing roots. So I get rid of all the circling roots in one go. Then again, i’m Not the most experienced grower so take my experience with a grain of salt. KISS

 

[Clicio]

Just cut them all off by slicing/snipping under the layer of roots that were circling along the substrate/soil-pot interface. Then just loosen the outside of the 'ball' that remains - voila!

I thought so. Less pain, more gain.
Thanks, @0soyoung

 

[Clicio]

I usually cut the bulk of the root mass in half and only then start combing roots.

Gustavo you mean "cut the bulk of the root mass" horizontally, right? Then untangle the remaining half of the circling roots, instead of all of them?

 

[Gustavo Martins]

Gustavo you mean "cut the bulk of the root mass" horizontally, right? Then untangle the remaining half of the circling roots, instead of all of them?

Yes.

 

[LanceMac10]

Isn't winter on your horizon....I mean, whatever "winter" you might get in your location? Are the ladies no longer in swim/stir my loins wear?

 

[Shibui]

I also routinely slice a layer off the bottom and a slice all round the edge of the root ball when repotting. I know some people spend ages untangling then cut the roots but if I'm going to cut them eventually, why not do it first instead of wasting all that time?

Be careful doing this with a tree you do not know. Some production nurseries pot on by placing the roots of a small tree in the bottom of the pot then topping up with mix. Over time the roots grow up and fill the entire pot but are still all growing from the base of the trunk. Slicing the base will separate the trunk from the roots - not a good outcome. This is from experience. Always check down the trunk to confirm there are good roots growing before making the first cuts when repotting.

 

[Clicio]

I also routinely slice a layer off the bottom and a slice all round the edge of the root ball when repotting.

And by slicing you mean sawing off, I guess.

 

[Shibui]

And by slicing you mean sawing off, I guess.

That depends on the size and how matted the roots are. I can usually cut through the root ball with root pruning shears but have occasionally had to resort to a saw. Note that saw will never be the same after cutting through gritty bonsai mix so please don't use your good pruning saw for this.
I was going to refer to a post on my website but the photos don't exist any more after moving to a new provider I will try to remember to redo that post this winter when repotting.

Attached photos should give you an idea of how I repot by slicing off the outside edges. Pics show an old trident. With younger trees I would normally cut a much thicker slice but the majority of that root ball is solid wood where the trunk and roots have expanded and merged. That thin slice off the bottom is about as much as can be physically cut off.

 

[Anthony]

As Shibui, illustrates.
Then using a fine home made root pruner, a light pass - may be - made.
all over the soil mass.
With the gravel mix, it is too heavy to need tying in the pot.
Also the compost used has a gluing action on gravel.

In around 30 years, pie cuts 3 and then 3 to 5 years later,
3 more to fully renew all of the soil.
Just imagine a circle with 6 triangular slices.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Shibui]

In around 30 years, pie cuts 3 and then 3 to 5 years later,
3 more to fully renew all of the soil.
Just imagine a circle with 6 triangular slices.

The photos above only show the initial root pruning. I then use the root rake to drag out much of the remaining mix which comes away far easier now that the circling entangled outer roots are gone. Probably not actual bare root but close.
A final prune of the roots depending on the state of the tree, species and what roots are there. Sometimes really thick or lumpy roots are cut really short to encourage more finer roots and to make more room in the pot for more mix and fine roots.
Following pics show the process with same trident as above.

 

[Anthony]

Shibui,

The soil mix we use was observed after 30 years to
encourage fine roots.
No tree checked had a thick root.
The ultimate in lazy man's bonsai.

The pie cuts further enforced what we found.
Only fine roots.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Clicio]

@Shibui @Gustavo Martins @0soyoung @Anthony
Thanks a lot, very helpful!

@LanceMac10 in winter here we go to the beach and people still wear bikinis. Constant joy!

 

[leatherback]

The same question drifted up in my mind, as I was just slicing and dicing before combing.

A perons I respect well when it comes to bonsai (And food and wine, come to it!) had a point that I could follow: By combing out, you get a good feel for the strength of the tree as distributed around the canopy. The length and number of healthy/unhealthy roots give you a good indication as to how far to trim which section of the rootball.

I am not completely convinced yet, but that is also because most of my trees are not at top level nor very aged.

 

[Shibui]

A perons I respect well when it comes to bonsai (And food and wine, come to it!) had a point that I could follow: By combing out, you get a good feel for the strength of the tree as distributed around the canopy. The length and number of healthy/unhealthy roots give you a good indication as to how far to trim which section of the rootball.

There are always going to be a range of opinions on what is the best way with any living organism. I still believe that I can identify strong and weaker sections of the root (if there are any) even after shearing the ends. Shearing the outer sections only removes the tangled roots circling the pot. You still have enough roots to assess numbers and strength.
Everyone is entitled to follow their own ideas of best (even if they are wrong)