CIA Confirms Russia Interfered in USA Election

[fredman]

As I see it the CIA has meddled for ever into Russian affairs. The KGB has forever meddled into US affairs. I really don't mind if they (Russia) had a hand in getting HC out the way. She was of no good to the US, nor US/Russian relations. Of her only underhanded tactics could've been expected anyway.
There is much bigger issues at hand atm. Better to get over it and get on with it, than waisting tax payers money on something that always has and always will be....

 

[thams]

I am not exactly sure I understand your point? Perhaps you don't either???

I posted this thread do to the whole fact that I know the history of the CIA... I know they have meddle for years in the affairs of other countries... I don't care if you comment about politics in our country, although you are from another country... but, I do care when people think that just because we are from the USA, that we all don't thoroughly understand what role our country has played in the world... right or wrongly. This assumes we are ignorant of the facts... we are not. They are out their for all to see.

When the CIA affirms Russia has meddle in the Democracy of the States... one should take notice... Ummm... because they actually know a thing or two about meddling in other countries business... this is their job. When I want an expert opinion. .. I turn to an expert.

I really never wade into these types of arguments, because truly nothing is ever accomplished... But do you really think the CIA is so transparent that they would publicly confirm something without withholding 90% of the truth? I am not insinuating that the CIA doesn't have the best of intentions with safeguarding the country, but if you take what the CIA "confirms" at face value then I have a bridge to sell you. Whenever the CIA makes a public stance, you should really be asking yourself why...

 

[A Random User]

As I see it the CIA has meddled for ever into Russian affairs. The KGB has forever meddled into US affairs. I really don't mind if they (Russia) had a hand in getting HC out the way. She was of no good to the US, nor US/Russian relations. Of her only underhanded tactics could've been expected anyway.
There is much bigger issues at hand atm. Better to get over it and get on with it, than waisting tax payers money on something that always has and always will be....

With all due respect here... do you really think it is proper to begin to tell a people how the should rightfully self-government their own interest... and their own country?

Reason for me asking is that I would not begin to tell the people of New Zealand how they should respond to the internal struggles of their political system. Nor would I begin to suggest how they should self-govern their own country... and lastly, I would not dare to suggest they should just sit idly by as a foriegn government threatened their sovereignty... in fact, I would probably do just the opposite. I would suggest they have the right to self governance, free of outside meddling... and that they should fight against such an injustice. For after all... it is their country... they deserve this.

Regardless... I would rightfully feel out of line, by doing any of these things.

 

[A Random User]

I really never wade into these types of arguments, because truly nothing is ever accomplished... But do you really think the CIA is so transparent that they would publicly confirm something without withholding 90% of the truth? I am not insinuating that the CIA doesn't have the best of intentions with safeguarding the country, but if you take what the CIA "confirms" at face value then I have a bridge to sell you. Whenever the CIA makes a public stance, you should really be asking yourself why...

Of course nothing is ever accomplished with any of these duscussions... there is no changing of one's minds... and clearly no coming together... Seeing most don't even take the time to actually read what is posted, before commenting. So, yeah... no real duscussion... Seeing that a real duscussion involves respecting at least one another, and at least reading what the other has posted.

As far as the CIA... I would merely ask a simple question... what would their be to gain from them addressing and taking such a stance? I am not saying you are wrong... merely questioning why?

Ok... so the CIA doesn't like Russia... big surprise. So, one could argue that are just continuing to fight against an entity that they have always fought against... but why not North Korea... Iran... ISIS, etc. The CIA does not like them either? Nonetheless, the action as we know did happen... that it is not just a fictional story, that someone just made up. That in fact there was obstruction... and regardless... Russia still has the most to of gained through what happened.

Secondly, outside of the CIA and before them releasing their findings... there have already been numerous independent security teams who have looked into the situation and have come to the same conclusion.

Lastly, the CIA putting their stamp on this finding, only invites more scutiny upon their own actions of doing similar activity. So, pot calling the kettle.

Regardless... of whether the CIA confirmed or didn't. .. it still happened. It still should be examined whether Trump likes it, or his supporters like it or not like it. And so far everyone who has looked into it, all signs lead to Russia. After 9/11 we looked into who attacked us... and rightfully so... so, if we have now been attacked, why is there no investigation? And why would the guy that now is Prez... not want to get to the bottom of it?

 

[fredman]

For after all... it is their country... they deserve this.

True, but in the case of the US and Russia. This is merely a game that has been played by both sides, as long as most can remember. That's why I say, best is to get over and on with it. That is what is needed by America now. NOT more of the same......

 

[thams]

Of course nothing is ever accomplished with any of these duscussions... there is no changing of one's minds... and clearly no coming together... Seeing most don't even take the time to actually read what is posted, before commenting. So, yeah... no real duscussion... Seeing that a real duscussion involves respecting at least one another, and at least reading what the other has posted.

As far as the CIA... I would merely ask a simple question... what would their be to gain from them addressing and taking such a stance? I am not saying you are wrong... merely questioning why?

Ok... so the CIA doesn't like Russia... big surprise. So, one could argue that are just continuing to fight against an entity that they have always fought against... but why not North Korea... Iran... ISIS, etc. The CIA does not like them either? Nonetheless, the action as we know did happen... that it is not just a fictional story, that someone just made up. That in fact there was obstruction... and regardless... Russia still has the most to of gained through what happened.

Secondly, outside of the CIA and before them releasing their findings... there have already been numerous independent security teams who have looked into the situation and have come to the same conclusion.

Lastly, the CIA putting their stamp on this finding, only invites more scutiny upon their own actions of doing similar activity. So, pot calling the kettle.

Regardless... of whether the CIA confirmed or didn't. .. it still happened. It still should be examined whether Trump likes it, or his supporters like it or not like it. And so far everyone who has looked into it, all signs lead to Russia. After 9/11 we looked into who attacked us... and rightfully so... so, if we have now been attacked, why is there no investigation? And why would the guy that now is Prez... not want to get to the bottom of it?

What would the CIA have to gain from confirming the hack? We (meaning the public,) would have no idea. What the CIA does in almost all cases is a complete enigma and based on information that ONLY they have access to. The CIA is notoriously known to not share information with other intelligence agencies, so why would they share information publicly? It's no secret that information released from the CIA and other intelligence agencies is tightly regulated to convey a very specific message to influence public opinion.

Why would the most secretive, well funded intelligence organization in the world feel compelled to release any information at all? We can question CIA decisions all day long, but the truth is we don't and won't ever know. Even the supposed classified reports that are "leaked" by unknown sources are intentional attempts to sway either the public or Congress. I think the better question to ask is what oversight does the intelligence community have to ensure accountability to the people? Not a whole lot... Look, I'm pro-security and the lack of internal controls over the intelligence community scares the hell out of me sometimes.

Should the US look into whether tampering happened? Sure. But why "confirm" this particular hack, when US systems (both government and private sector) are hacked every single day by numerous countries and terrorist groups? There are many many more newsworthy hacks that could be reported to the public on any given day - so why the one concerning the election? Especially when the claim of Russian influence over the election is vague and largely unsubstantiated by facts. Maybe I'm being too critical, but skepticism is healthy when it comes to murky claims released by the government.

 

[thams]

With all due respect here... do you really think it is proper to begin to tell a people how the should rightfully self-government their own interest... and their own country?

Reason for me asking is that I would not begin to tell the people of New Zealand how they should respond to the internal struggles of their political system. Nor would I begin to suggest how they should self-govern their own country... and lastly, I would not dare to suggest they should just sit idly by as a foriegn government threatened their sovereignty... in fact, I would probably do just the opposite. I would suggest they have the right to self governance, free of outside meddling... and that they should fight against such an injustice. For after all... it is their country... they deserve this.

Regardless... I would rightfully feel out of line, by doing any of these things.

Along the same lines of my previous post - if the United States chose to "respond" either military or diplomatically every time another country threatened our sovereignty then we would be absolutely mired in conflict even more so than we are now. Do you really think this is the first time since the Cold War that Russia has "attacked" our country? Why now is it the time we publicly acknowledge Russia's actions? I would bet my whole bonsai pot collection it has almost nothing to do with the election results and more likely to do with some other factor known to a limited few.

Obviously the government is attempting to gather public support for some sort of retaliatory action against Russia - either immediately or sometime in the near future. In fact, they're counting on people like you demanding action against Russia because they infringed upon the rights of citizens. They know the American people won't tolerate another open conflict - the left especially is too sensitive to stomach sending more troops to the front lines (not meant as an insult, just reiterating the left's policy stance). So how could the government garner support for some sort of intervention from the right AND left? Hmmmmmm...I know just how they could do that...

 

[Bolero]

In the World of GeoPolitics one of the major goals is to Expand ones Sphere of Influence as well as understanding Global Economics, Demographics & usually through both overt and covert Intelligence & Action.....

Centrist's are those not mentally buying into either of these Positions but usually combining the Best of both into their thinking...

Throughout the History of Man there has always been Conflict and Disagreement between the Liberal Thinkers and the Conservative Thinkers and usually one group or the other ends up Governing their own Country's Global actions including their activity's...

Then there is Right & Wrong regardless of Political Leaning...
Think Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Se Tung, ISIS, and on & on & on.....

America although very, very young in terms of Historical Effect has always been a Force for Good both at home and abroad evidenced by WWII, Korea, Viet Nam and many other areas of the Globe...

My Point....The peoples of each Country have to exist within their Leaders and their Country's overall objectives on the big Chess Board of Global GeoPolitics, like it or not its Reality..........

One must discern between the overall effects of an Obama Policy, Clinton Policy or a Trump (yet unproven Policy)....

America as a Global Influence needs to re-establish itself as a force for the Good of Mankind & the Protector of its Citizens in a new highly technical Global Atmosphere....ie. Leftist Hillary or Centrist Conservative Trump....

30

 

[Vance Wood]

An so---- now we are going to have pages and pages full of pontifications, and unsupported conspiracy theories about why and how Trump won the election ranging from Martians and Russians. Actually; as per practice in one of his earlier posts, he makes a statement about the CIA confirming Russians hacked the election for Trump. The original source being from a far left wing, unsupported, and unverifiable publication known for making up the news. Then a couple of posts later he uses his previous declaration about the CIA as proof that his statements about the election is true. If you haven't seen it yet, this has absolutely nothing to do with the election, it is about how smart he is and how dumb and stupid the rest of us are; nothing more. Go through and read everything he writes, in one way or another goes back to how smart he is and blah blah blah.

It is this kind of thinking and reasoning has led the country to turn on itself. If it does not stop, and soon, there will be nothing left to save and we will be living in a third world socialist dictatorship.

 

[my nellie]

Dear sawgrass, I second what thams said above :

I really never wade into these types of arguments, because truly nothing is ever accomplished... ...

My mistake to express my thoughts, I violated a principle of mine... Anyway, I feel obliged to give a short answer before I change my attitude to just reading other people's thoughts.

I am not exactly sure I understand your point? Perhaps you don't either???

Let me elaborate my point so that you can understand it. The verb used "confirms" was kind of challenging and/or provocative so this was the reason for me to respond.
This verb "confirms" is the clearest signal for the most part of the rest of the world that the so called confirmation aims to something else way different than the fact itself. This verb "confirms" is the clearest signal for the most part of the rest of the world that there is an attempt going on to focus people's attention at the aimed point and distract it from the real facts.
I will not quote other members participating in this discussion who have said the same (using different words), their posts are here for anyone to read.

... ...I don't care if you comment about politics in our country, although you are from another country... but, I do care when people think that just because we are from the USA, that we all don't thoroughly understand what role our country has played in the world... right or wrongly. This assumes we are ignorant of the facts... we are not. They are out their for all to see.

I do not think that!
In fact I believe that there are a lot of USA citizens who know exactly the role of their country (either secret or clear) all around the world. And it is also my belief that these USA voices are being always under suppression attacks.
CIA plays a major role in this suppression.

... ...When I want an expert opinion. .. I turn to an expert.

The truth is that you did not ask for opinions, and of course I am not an expert or anything near expert. But participating in fora you know of course that you will be faced with any kind of responds and opinions, even from non experts.
But then again what is the reason for starting this discussion? Perhaps it was just a mere announcement of the newspaper's article... if this is the case I apologize for posting my comment...

 

[A Random User]

What would the CIA have to gain from confirming the hack? We (meaning the public,) would have no idea. What the CIA does in almost all cases is a complete enigma and based on information that ONLY they have access to. The CIA is notoriously known to not share information with other intelligence agencies, so why would they share information publicly? It's no secret that information released from the CIA and other intelligence agencies is tightly regulated to convey a very specific message to influence public opinion.

Why would the most secretive, well funded intelligence organization in the world feel compelled to release any information at all? We can question CIA decisions all day long, but the truth is we don't and won't ever know. Even the supposed classified reports that are "leaked" by unknown sources are intentional attempts to sway either the public or Congress. I think the better question to ask is what oversight does the intelligence community have to ensure accountability to the people? Not a whole lot... Look, I'm pro-security and the lack of internal controls over the intelligence community scares the hell out of me sometimes.

Should the US look into whether tampering happened? Sure. But why "confirm" this particular hack, when US systems (both government and private sector) are hacked every single day by numerous countries and terrorist groups? There are many many more newsworthy hacks that could be reported to the public on any given day - so why the one concerning the election? Especially when the claim of Russian influence over the election is vague and largely unsubstantiated by facts. Maybe I'm being too critical, but skepticism is healthy when it comes to murky claims released by the government.

With all due respect, I think you are being a little vague here with your assessment... First off investigations are done all the time regarding Hacks. So, not quite sure where, or why someone would say stuff gets hacked all the time and no one looks into it, so why look into this.

This goes against every actual fact that is reported on a daily basis by the news of hacks that occur. Whether it is hacks of Government websites, private sector hacks like Target and Banks and even Internet companies like Google, etc. So, statements of no one investigates these incidents are just false... especially seeing we know they have been investigated, and there have even been numerous senate hearings dealing with the particular hack of the day, when they happen.

Now, one could perhaps argue that no one ever seems to be held accountable... but, this is not true as well. People are prosecuted daily in our judicial system for hacks... these are often not widely reported, due to often the process of taking years upon years to collect evidence and to go through the system... which by the time a verdict is found, most don't even recall the act that occured years before.

So, if we do actually investigate acts of hacking when they happen, my question then would be why should this be any different? It should not be... and there should be the same investigation done and the same senate hearings. This should not be a case of we don't want to investigate because someone doesn't like it, or Trump thinks there is no evidence... it should be investigated because this is what we do with every single hack, and to not do sets a preseidence otherwise.

Now as far as the CIA... we can go back n forth all day long regarding why they did what they did, if they should of, what they would have to gain by doing so, if they have ever done leaks before, and your belief of if they actually answer to the people or not... and if so what might their intentions be...

This is only fluff... it still does not change the he fact that a hack occured, that numerous other security and cyber teams have already come to the conclusion that Russia did the hack, so the CIA is just one more list on the pile here, saying they have evidence to support this as well. Now, perhaps they don't , perhaps it is manufactered... or perhaps as Trump says these are the same people that brought us weapons of mass destruction in Iraq ...

Nonetheless, despite what Trump says and despite how he thinks he knows more that everyone about everything... the facts are he doesn't, and as a Prez. being told the Russians might of done this by a Government Agency whose sole purpose is to gather intelligence and report it to him and the American People... his outright dismissal of this through a public medium, only further undercuts the ability for them to do their job, for him to do his job, the Senate and house to do their job, etc. And it only weakens the security of the US by further building division within the different agencies. .. which after Sept 11 is what we tried to prevent.

If he has actual evidence to support his claim that the Russians did not do this... then present it. Call for the same investigation, the same hearings... and turn it over... So, we can get to the bottom of who did the hacking. If not Trump is just talking bull shit and defending bull shit, and attacking an agency over bull shit, which then begs the question why?

 

[A Random User]

An so---- now we are going to have pages and pages full of pontifications, and unsupported conspiracy theories about why and how Trump won the election ranging from Martians and Russians. Actually; as per practice in one of his earlier posts, he makes a statement about the CIA confirming Russians hacked the election for Trump. The original source being from a far left wing, unsupported, and unverifiable publication known for making up the news. Then a couple of posts later he uses his previous declaration about the CIA as proof that his statements about the election is true. If you haven't seen it yet, this has absolutely nothing to do with the election, it is about how smart he is and how dumb and stupid the rest of us are; nothing more. Go through and read everything he writes, in one way or another goes back to how smart he is and blah blah blah.

It is this kind of thinking and reasoning has led the country to turn on itself. If it does not stop, and soon, there will be nothing left to save and we will be living in a third world socialist dictatorship.

Vance, what the fuck are you talking about?

First off you don't actually read any of my post before jerk on off here... so, not quite sure why you even take the time to comment? Perhaps you are bored in your old age, who knows?

Second... the only one who is discussing "Conspiracy Theories ", is you. You may not like the source of the link I posted... you can call them left wing propaganda... not a reliable news source, what every you want... Makes no difference and to be frank, I could give two shits over whether you like them or not...

However, this still does not change the fact that no matter what you might think of the source. .. they still reported that the CIA met with Congressional Leaders and reported their findings. Numerous other News sources have reported this as well... and Trump's dumb ass even responded to this with a statement, and dumb tweets.

So, are you telling us that this is a "Conspiracy "? That in fact you know better than all of these News Agencies, and the dip shit we have as Prez... and that in fact the CIA did not meet with Congressional Leaders and tell them what they found?

Do, you want me to post up numerous links to these sites and Trump's statements and Tweets? Would this clarify things for you?

As far as my supposed post a couple of post later... about how it somehow confirms some bull shit about elections...

Again , I haven't the slightest clue what the hell you are talking about. And I highly suspect you don't either...

The elections happened. This is old news. Trump is going to be the next Prez. And as such he should act like one! just as you should act like you have any Ioda of common sense. Intervention into the Election Process by any other country undermines to whole election process. End of Story. It threatens all the BS you rant about on a daily basis, about your "Constitutional Rights".

If you cannot "Freely" elect who ever it is you might want to be the next leader, including Trump's dumb ass... then you are not truely Free.

I mean aren't you the same clown that keeps talking about shit being rigged? Was not Trump guilty of saying shit was rigged? Funny, how all the talk about Voter Fraud... and how it undermined our Democracy... Yet you talk about "Conspiracy" ... seems to me you would want to have this investigated as well, seeing you care so much! You are about the biggest Hypocrit I have ever seen!

 

[A Random User]

An so---- now we are going to have pages and pages full of pontifications, and unsupported conspiracy theories about why and how Trump won the election ranging from Martians and Russians. Actually; as per practice in one of his earlier posts, he makes a statement about the CIA confirming Russians hacked the election for Trump. The original source being from a far left wing, unsupported, and unverifiable publication known for making up the news. Then a couple of posts later he uses his previous declaration about the CIA as proof that his statements about the election is true. If you haven't seen it yet, this has absolutely nothing to do with the election, it is about how smart he is and how dumb and stupid the rest of us are; nothing more. Go through and read everything he writes, in one way or another goes back to how smart he is and blah blah blah.

It is this kind of thinking and reasoning has led the country to turn on itself. If it does not stop, and soon, there will be nothing left to save and we will be living in a third world socialist dictatorship.

Vance, what the fuck are you talking about?

First off you don't actually read any of my post before jerk on off here... so, not quite sure why you even take the time to comment? Perhaps you are bored in your old age, who knows?

Second... the only one who is discussing "Conspiracy Theories ", is you. You may not like the source of the link I posted... you can call them left wing propaganda... not a reliable news source, what every you want... Makes no difference and to be frank, I could give two shits over whether you like them or not...

However, this still does not change the fact that no matter what you might think of the source. .. they still reported that the CIA met with Congressional Leaders and reported their findings. Numerous other News sources have reported this as well... and Trump's dumb ass even responded to this with a statement, and dumb tweets.

So, are you telling us that this is a "Conspiracy "? That in fact you know better than all of these News Agencies, and the dip shit we have as Prez... and that in fact the CIA did not meet with Congressional Leaders and tell them what they found?

Do, you want me to post up numerous links to these sites and Trump's statements and Tweets? Would this clarify things for you?

As far as my supposed post a couple of post later... about how it somehow confirms some bull shit about elections...

Again , I haven't the slightest clue what the hell you are talking about. And I highly suspect you don't either...

The elections happened. This is old news. Trump is going to be the next Prez. And as such he should act like one! just as you should act like you have any Ioda of common sense. Intervention into the Election Process by any other country undermines to whole election process. End of Story. It threatens all the BS you rant about on a daily basis, about your "Constitutional Rights".

If you cannot "Freely" elect who ever it is you might want to be the next leader, including Trump's dumb ass... then you are not truely Free.

I mean aren't you the same clown that keeps talking about shit being rigged? Was not Trump guilty of saying shit was rigged? Funny, how all the talk about Voter Fraud... and how it undermined our Democracy... Yet you talk about "Conspiracy" ... seems to me you would want to have this investigated as well, seeing you care so much! You are about the biggest Hypocrit I have ever seen! What a joke you are!

I am going to now Block you... you are not worth spending time on breathing air to even acknowledge you exist.

 

[A Random User]

Dear sawgrass, I second what thams said above :
My mistake to express my thoughts, I violated a principle of mine... Anyway, I feel obliged to give a short answer before I change my attitude to just reading other people's thoughts.
Let me elaborate my point so that you can understand it. The verb used "confirms" was kind of challenging and/or provocative so this was the reason for me to respond.
This verb "confirms" is the clearest signal for the most part of the rest of the world that the so called confirmation aims to something else way different than the fact itself. This verb "confirms" is the clearest signal for the most part of the rest of the world that there is an attempt going on to focus people's attention at the aimed point and distract it from the real facts.
I will not quote other members participating in this discussion who have said the same (using different words), their posts are here for anyone to read.

I do not think that!
In fact I believe that there are a lot of USA citizens who know exactly the role of their country (either secret or clear) all around the world. And it is also my belief that these USA voices are being always under suppression attacks.
CIA plays a major role in this suppression.

The truth is that you did not ask for opinions, and of course I am not an expert or anything near expert. But participating in fora you know of course that you will be faced with any kind of responds and opinions, even from non experts.
But then again what is the reason for starting this discussion? Perhaps it was just a mere announcement of the newspaper's article... if this is the case I apologize for posting my comment...

Let me just say that as for my own personal feelings, I don't care if people from other countries comment on affairs of the US. In fact I often welcome them... in fact I have commented numerous times back n forth regarding these types of subjects with people from outside of the states and will continue to do so.

I also, have engaged in conversations with folks from other countries regarding their political system, and will continue to do so...

I understand throughly that politics although their effects are often felt locally, also have their presence felt internationally as well... so I think it is good to have a conversation, as well to learn the concerns as well of others abroad. So, you will never hear me say one should not comment, or be able to comment.

Now, with that said... when commenting or making comments in such a manner, I do feel there is a point that one needs to observe... out of just respect. There is a difference between making comments of concern, or making comments of a particular view or dislike, and making comments of that of telling what someone should do, or how their country should be run.

Comments in this type of manner are not respectful, and really in a lot of ways cross a line. It is not my place to try and tell someone in another country how they should live their lives in their own country, and not another's to say how I should live my life.

It is not my place to try and tell someone on the other side of the world, what is best for them and their country. It is their country, and unless I plan on moving there... I would be out of line.

So, post what you like, and when you like.This is not my forum, not my site, you have the same right to comment as everyone does!

As far as you questions...

I said "Confirms", seeing that this is what the article said, and this is what the CIA themselves did. Now do I work for them, No.
Do, I know that they have the evidence to support such a claim, No. Did they just make the whole shit up? I don't know... but the reality is this is what they say happened, and this us what they "Confirmed".

As far as the CIA hindering the voice of the American People outside of the states... I would agree. I would also agree that unfortunately as we all know there is the self willingness of others to want to believe what they want to regardless of what is actually being done or said. Examples of which, might be perceived notions about particular countries that are based more on the feelings towards a country that the actual occurrences. This obviously the CIA might have a role in, but largely are based in common perception. When Bush Jr. was Prez. Most of the world thinking he was a dumb ass, was not some secret conception of the CIA... but perhaps more of what people in other countries saw on the news and his actions that he did.

As far as me asking for an "opinion"... this comment that you quoted was me responding to myself. The CIA stands for Central Intelligence Agency ... so, if you read what I posted, you will see that I was saying, if I wanted an "Opinion " based on Intelegence of who was behind the hack, I would ask an expert who is skilled in these things, for their opinion.

My reasoning for posting this thread since you asked, was seeing that we are now allowing political BS to be a part of this site again... I felt this subject of the hacking was important and worthy of a discussion, as well an investigation. So I posted it up.

I have stated this numerous times. I have also stated on numerous occasions that I don't care who might of benifitted from it.. that if Hillary or anyone else might of... that it would still be wrong, and should still be investigated, so that hopefully we could prevent this from happening again.

This really should be a mutual agreement thing on all sides... no one should be able to undermine to integrity of our election process... whether it benifits their candidate, my candidate, or not.

 

[A Random User]

Sorry, wanted to add one more thing...

Some are obviously attacking the CIA and their credibility... some for good reasoning, others due sadly now to political bias BS... as rediculous evidence of one more Government thing against the American people. Drain the Swamp...

This is fine... I don't care for the CIA, so doesn't hurt my feelings... but, it is just absurd to possibly begin to think there is some secret plot out there to try and hurt Trump supporters. This is a farce.
And Sadly just shows the level at which one would want to play the victim, in which there really is no need, and in which you are putting your own self intrests over the good of that in which you claim to want to make Great Again.

The election is over... Trump will be the next Prez... if you cannot honestly open your eyes for at least one moment and see that what happened was not good, that should not of been allowed to of happened, and that should not happen in arena future elections ... then sadly Making America Great can't really happen. Because all that we claim to be, all that we want the world to see, every time we talk about unfair elections in other coutries, about dictators and people being forced to vote a certain way... is just Rubbish.

I mean how can anyone sit with a straight face and say they want to end corruption, when we cannot even secure our election cycle.

 

[Vance Wood]

You are assuming that the report you read is factual. Do you ever research any of that or do you just gobble that kind of information up make a comment then quote your own comment as a conformation. As to reading all of you posts I usually read the first paragraph or so then I read the last paragraph; nothing ever changes. I get tired of killing brain cells with your ribald diatribe..

Did you realize that of all the postings on this thread ten postings containing a total of 263 paragraphs belong to you. I know you think they are important but you remind me of what I learned of Fidel Castro who would get up on a podium and speak for five hours. I on the other hand have only made two posts on this thread, (this one will be two) and you are going to block me? Very courageous of you. Must have hit a nerve?

 

[vaibatron]

I really never wade into these types of arguments, because truly nothing is ever accomplished... But do you really think the CIA is so transparent that they would publicly confirm something without withholding 90% of the truth? I am not insinuating that the CIA doesn't have the best of intentions with safeguarding the country, but if you take what the CIA "confirms" at face value then I have a bridge to sell you. Whenever the CIA makes a public stance, you should really be asking yourself why...

If I could expand on this...

The United States intelligence community has no real dog in a fight in determining whether another world power had meddled in our elections. They are a self-serving entity that operates convertly. It doesn't matter who won the election, it will be business as usual.

Why would they publicly announce this?
Without being too long winded... To create more distaste for the Russian government. Not because they care about the president elect, rather the govnment who has continued to fund and fuel our oppositions in the Middle East and Africa.

Frankly, they are f*cking with our ability to easily seize poppy/oil/diamond and other profitable resources from places that without Russian intervention would take far less time and money to plunder.

 

[thams]

With all due respect, I think you are being a little vague here with your assessment... First off investigations are done all the time regarding Hacks. So, not quite sure where, or why someone would say stuff gets hacked all the time and no one looks into it, so why look into this.

This goes against every actual fact that is reported on a daily basis by the news of hacks that occur. Whether it is hacks of Government websites, private sector hacks like Target and Banks and even Internet companies like Google, etc. So, statements of no one investigates these incidents are just false... especially seeing we know they have been investigated, and there have even been numerous senate hearings dealing with the particular hack of the day, when they happen.

Now, one could perhaps argue that no one ever seems to be held accountable... but, this is not true as well. People are prosecuted daily in our judicial system for hacks... these are often not widely reported, due to often the process of taking years upon years to collect evidence and to go through the system... which by the time a verdict is found, most don't even recall the act that occured years before.

So, if we do actually investigate acts of hacking when they happen, my question then would be why should this be any different? It should not be... and there should be the same investigation done and the same senate hearings. This should not be a case of we don't want to investigate because someone doesn't like it, or Trump thinks there is no evidence... it should be investigated because this is what we do with every single hack, and to not do sets a preseidence otherwise.

Now as far as the CIA... we can go back n forth all day long regarding why they did what they did, if they should of, what they would have to gain by doing so, if they have ever done leaks before, and your belief of if they actually answer to the people or not... and if so what might their intentions be...

This is only fluff... it still does not change the he fact that a hack occured, that numerous other security and cyber teams have already come to the conclusion that Russia did the hack, so the CIA is just one more list on the pile here, saying they have evidence to support this as well. Now, perhaps they don't , perhaps it is manufactered... or perhaps as Trump says these are the same people that brought us weapons of mass destruction in Iraq ...

Nonetheless, despite what Trump says and despite how he thinks he knows more that everyone about everything... the facts are he doesn't, and as a Prez. being told the Russians might of done this by a Government Agency whose sole purpose is to gather intelligence and report it to him and the American People... his outright dismissal of this through a public medium, only further undercuts the ability for them to do their job, for him to do his job, the Senate and house to do their job, etc. And it only weakens the security of the US by further building division within the different agencies. .. which after Sept 11 is what we tried to prevent.

If he has actual evidence to support his claim that the Russians did not do this... then present it. Call for the same investigation, the same hearings... and turn it over... So, we can get to the bottom of who did the hacking. If not Trump is just talking bull shit and defending bull shit, and attacking an agency over bull shit, which then begs the question why?

Stacy, I never said there shouldn't be an investigation. Of course the government should investigate anytime a system is hacked - at the very least to determine how it occurred to fix deficiencies in security.

Second, I never defended Trump's accusations against the CIA as an untrustworthy intelligence organization. I could care less what Trump's opinion of the CIA is. It's all just posturing since he'll be relying on intelligence briefs every day in the White House. Trump's babble is just white noise. People that are so extremely affected by his tweets and other garbage are taking the bait - both right and left wing.

The only point I was really making is that you're relying on intelligence "evidence" in the form of a third party claim that the election was influenced. The CIA AND the media spin information all the time to suit their respective objectives. I'm just saying you should really consider the information being presented and NEVER take it at face value. You appear gullible in this situation. I really don't mean that as an insult, truly.

 

[A Random User]

Stacy, I never said there shouldn't be an investigation. Of course the government should investigate anytime a system is hacked - at the very least to determine how it occurred to fix deficiencies in security.

Second, I never defended Trump's accusations against the CIA as an untrustworthy intelligence organization. I could care less what Trump's opinion of the CIA is. It's all just posturing since he'll be relying on intelligence briefs every day in the White House. Trump's babble is just white noise. People that are so extremely affected by his tweets and other garbage are taking the bait - both right and left wing.

The only point I was really making is that you're relying on intelligence "evidence" in the form of a third party claim that the election was influenced. The CIA AND the media spin information all the time to suit their respective objectives. I'm just saying you should really consider the information being presented and NEVER take it at face value. You appear gullible in this situation. I really don't mean that as an insult, truly.

Well.. ok then.
I am not insulted, however I don't really see the point carrying on the duscussion then.

I have with just about every post I have posted here questioned or commented the actions of the CIA. and have discussed as well some of the things they have done wrong. And have not disagreed with anyone regarding their actions. I have also on numerous posts questioned what role them doing this would play, perhaps why they would do it, and what they would have to possibly gain. I have as well mentioned the findings as well of others, all leading and pointing in the same direction... and have stated it should be investigated, this is all.

So, just short of me saying they are full of shit... which is apparently what you would have me say... even though you have no actual evidence other than your feelings, that they are... or are wrong with what they have found, or what they have said.. I have quite literally not taken much or anything at face value.

Taking something at face value would be blindly following something, or someone without questions. I have questioned. So, unless your whole intention is to just try and prove I am wrong just because you say so... I would suggest you either produce some sort of evidence that proves such or we just stop talking. Seeing regardless of whether you think I am somehow vulnerable... a cannot provide you with something I don't have to give... and something that does not exist.

 

[thams]

Well.. ok then.
I am not insulted, however I don't really see the point carrying on the duscussion then.

I have with just about every post I have posted here questioned or commented the actions of the CIA. and have discussed as well some of the things they have done wrong. And have not disagreed with anyone regarding their actions. I have also on numerous posts questioned what role them doing this would play, perhaps why they would do it, and what they would have to possibly gain. I have as well mentioned the findings as well of others, all leading and pointing in the same direction... and have stated it should be investigated, this is all.

So, just short of me saying they are full of shit... which is apparently what you would have me say... even though you have no actual evidence other than your feelings, that they are... or are wrong with what they have found, or what they have said.. I have quite literally not taken much or anything at face value.

Taking something at face value would be blindly following something, or someone without questions. I have questioned. So, unless your whole intention is to just try and prove I am wrong just because you say so... I would suggest you either produce some sort of evidence that proves such or we just stop talking. Seeing regardless of whether you think I am somehow vulnerable... a cannot provide you with something I don't have to give... and something that does not exist.

Going back to my first post, I generally don't comment on threads like these because nothing is ever accomplished. In other words, I don't see a lot of utility in these types of conversations. I'm not trying to strictly disprove anything you're saying. I'm just presenting an alternative stance to what you're suggesting - simply that you shouldn't take the CIA's public "confirmation" through a new outlet's article as proof of anything definitive.

I think you're reading too much into what I'm saying. To mirror what you said in your reply - I guess there's no point in continuing the conversation...EXCEPT sometimes its interesting to carry on conversations without insulting or arguing moral positions on topics. I'm not suggesting you're insulting me, but this thread certainly is negative. Just an observation - you see no point in carrying on the discussion when it's civilized, but respond in volumes when you interpret someone is insulting you. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Again, no offense meant, just an observation from this head and others.