Can a Juniper live well with the right care inside?

[coh]

Rob, your post almost sounds like an argument for keeping them inside! Where you can control the environment and limit exposure to fungi, insects, etc. It's a scary world out there!

 

[october]

Rob, your post almost sounds like an argument for keeping them inside! Where you can control the environment and limit exposure to fungi, insects, etc. It's a scary world out there!

lol.. It almost does. However, insects love it when you bring the trees inside. Also, you won't have to worry about it long term. Inside, in a few seasons, the tree will be unhealthy or dead.

Rob

 

[coh]

So you don't believe it's possible either, even though it's been done
Whatever! Please realize, I'm not advocating for anyone to try keeping one inside...just saying that it's not impossible.

Anyway, enough for me on this topic. As I've said before, the info is out there for people to make their own choices.

By the way, I still haven't figured out how to keep junipers happy outside. It's very frustrating as I really love a healthy, well styled juniper bonsai.

Chris

 

[october]

So you don't believe it's possible either, even though it's been done
Whatever! Please realize, I'm not advocating for anyone to try keeping one inside...just saying that it's not impossible.

Anyway, enough for me on this topic. As I've said before, the info is out there for people to make their own choices.

By the way, I still haven't figured out how to keep junipers happy outside. It's very frustrating as I really love a healthy, well styled juniper bonsai.

Chris

I do believe it's possible. However, the tree will probably never be as healthy as it is outside. Also, it might not last as long as it would outside. Usually those that grow them inside, need to, due to climate or other conditions. Also, the trees are in pretty elaborate set ups and are still given a dormancy period.

Rob

 

[Stiple]

I can actually chime in on the subject despite being a new member. I used to live in an apartment that had great sun on my balcony when I began bringing home junipers. Shortly had to move to a condo with horrible sun.

So, I looked to the internet and some old magazines on how to grow things great indoors. Have you all seen the indoor grow tents? They make a pretty decent bonsai grow tent.

I brought one of my junipers inside late November/early December of 2012, and kept the other 3 on my balcony.

It was watering the outdoor ones not often enough during the winter and deep shade for the majority of each day that killed them. However, my indoor juniper has grown so much that sap has broken out like an alien from the trunk on several occasions.

Oh, and while keeping it inside for 2 years now (no dormancy period), I'll be testing out just how many years (not "seasons") junipers can last.

It takes a great grow light in close proximity to the canopy, and a humid environment to learn to grow inside.

 

[Paradox]

Do you see the irony in your last statement?

The only irony is that I AM someone that tried growing to the grow a juniper inside on a window sill.

Guess what? It almost died.
You want to know how I saved it?
I put it outside.

If it was that doable, everyone would have juniper growing inside. The fact is we dont and that is indeniable.

 

[coh]

However, my indoor juniper has grown so much that sap has broken out like an alien from the trunk on several occasions.

That actually sounds like it could be a fungus. Did you take any pics of it?

 

[Stiple]

I didnt know what it was at the time, and a few weeks after noticing it, it became buds snd then new growth. A huge brach followed.

I have this guy on a really strong hydroponic fert.

Ill find what old pics i have, but here is a more recent one.

This winter will be the second that it has not experienced.

 

[Stiple]

Heres how it looks this morning under its grow light.

 

[M. Frary]

In your grow tent do you use metal halide lights and fans and humidifier or mister. Also what kind of light cycle are timers set for.

 

[Lazylightningny]

It takes a great grow light in close proximity to the canopy, and a humid environment to learn to grow inside.

Perhaps this is the key, although it may take a few seasons to really see the effect on the plant.


They look pretty happy to me at this time, though.

 

[october]

A juniper needs dormancy. You might make 3 or even 4 years, without it. However, eventually it will kill the tree. Also, by not giving this tree dormancy you are depriving it of a necessary part of it's life cycle.

Rob

 

[coh]

A juniper needs dormancy. You might make 3 or even 4 years, without it. However, eventually it will kill the tree. Also, by not giving this tree dormancy you are depriving it of a necessary part of it's life cycle.

Rob

Rob, I respect your years of experience (especially with junipers), but how can you stick to this line in the face of the evidence? Have you read through Jack's article? In it he specifically states that he has kept junipers indoors, under lights, without a dormant period, for 20 years or so.

Note that what he does is completely different than simply placing a juniper on a windowsill (like Paradox did). Just place it on a windowsill with insufficient light and sure, it will weaken and die (even though it might take a few years). But do it right and it has been shown to be possible.

Chris

 

[Dav4]

Out of all the different species of trees we subject successfully to bonsai culture, junipers are, perhaps, the most adaptable. Junipers are routinely used by folks in FL where the winters are short and mild, and Robert Steven has them in Indonesia, which is truly a tropical climate. I think the issue with successfully maintaining a juniper inside is less dependent on providing a dormant period (I think they would grow better with one), but providing enough light, appropriate humidity, ventilation, and understanding how to water.

 

[edprocoat]

Its not impossible to keep a juniper alive inside and thriving as well. I have never tried it though. There is a Bonsai grower here in Dayton Ohio who has grown Junipers for over 20 years inside his greenhouse. This is the standard commercial glass greenhouse, no special lighting nor humidifiers. He has some great old specimen Pro Nanas and other varieties as well as Trident Maples, Ficus of many varieties, and Chinese Elms and other tropical too. These trees were started indoors, never have seen the full light of the sun and are healthy robust trees.

NONE that I have purchased FROM HIM HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE IT OUTDOORS !!! They seem to start to fail immediately when placed outside in partial sun. You can see them online at North Dayton Garden Center, click on his Bonsai link. This guy has figured out how to kjeep them alive indoors, he Is stuck on styling all his trees in a "pom-pom" like style, think of a topiary plant. Despite his styling the trees are outstanding examples of healthy robust indoor trees, all varieties that usually - NORMALLY - would not stand a chance indoors.

This is a link to a video showing some of his stuff inside where they never leave unless sold. - http://northdaytongarden.com/video-bonsai.html

ed

 

[Poink88]

I personally do not categorize keeping plants or trees in a greenhouse as kept "indoors". Though I can see & understand how you can argue it is.

 

[edprocoat]

I personally do not categorize keeping plants or trees in a greenhouse as kept "indoors". Though I can see & understand how you can argue it is.

Well let me see, you walk in through a brick frontage building then enter the enclosed glass Quonset hut type glass building. The building is totally enclosed on all sides with a fan at one gable end of each building. There is no direct light, I would judge the shade from the glass roof and walls at around 30 %. I know when you walk inside on a 80's degree + day its about 70 or so inside and the sun neither blinds you or makes you feel warmer as its diffused.

Of course I do not know what you consider INDOORS out in Texas though .....


ed

 

[october]

Rob, I respect your years of experience (especially with junipers), but how can you stick to this line in the face of the evidence? Have you read through Jack's article? In it he specifically states that he has kept junipers indoors, under lights, without a dormant period, for 20 years or so.

Note that what he does is completely different than simply placing a juniper on a windowsill (like Paradox did). Just place it on a windowsill with insufficient light and sure, it will weaken and die (even though it might take a few years). But do it right and it has been shown to be possible.

Chris

I think I may have read his article many years ago. There has to be some period of rest. Even if it is just 6-8 weeks of temps in the 40s -50s.

Rob

 

[coh]

Out of all the different species of trees we subject successfully to bonsai culture, junipers are, perhaps, the most adaptable. Junipers are routinely used by folks in FL where the winters are short and mild, and Robert Steven has them in Indonesia, which is truly a tropical climate. I think the issue with successfully maintaining a juniper inside is less dependent on providing a dormant period (I think they would grow better with one), but providing enough light, appropriate humidity, ventilation, and understanding how to water.

Yes! That is all I'm trying to say. You can't just plop them on a windowsill that gets an hour or two of light a day and expect them to thrive.

As for temperature, this is what Jack had to say:

"I am often asked what temperature I maintain in the basement where I grow my indoor bonsai. Actually, this temperature changes slowly in response to outdoor temperatures. In periods of extended warm weather, it has risen as high as 84°F. Extended cold results in a chilly basement with temperatures in the 64°F to 66°F range. I have not been particularly conscious of growing problems at either temperature extreme. However, repotting warm climate plants during the warm season does seem to work better than repotting during cold months."

My guess is that there is probably enough seasonal variation in the temperature, even indoors, so that the junipers will go through a semi-dormant phase, or a reduced growth phase, kind of like many tropicals do. But "1000 hours of temperatures below 50 (or 40)" doesn't seem to be a strict requirement.

I have a small procumbens juniper that I won in a raffle a few years ago. I was going to sell it but now I'm thinking I'll bring it in with my small collection of tropicals and see how it handles not getting a dormant period.

(And Rob, the article is linked in my first post in this thread, page 2 I think, if you're interested)

Chris

 

[Stiple]

In your grow tent do you use metal halide lights and fans and humidifier or mister. Also what kind of light cycle are timers set for.

I used to have two 400W equivalent CFL light bulbs under a light hood/reflector. The two lights consumed about 128W.

A few months ago, I switched over to a single LED light. Not your everyday LED, but a COB led array (Cree CXA 3070). This is what is lighting the juniper in my pics from this morning. The light consumes 96W.

My lights run 16 hours a day normally, but I've also ran them 24/7 for several weeks at a time. I only switch back to 16 hours a day due to the ~$40/month extra on my electricity bill.


Misters/sprayers? Nope. I put them in a ebb and flow hydroponic setup since day 1. My fert is a commercial cucumber one that is 4-18-36 (http://www.hydro-gardens.com/81636.htm).

Pics of my LED in action..