Calcined Clay defined

[Bonsai Nut]

In particular, this is the first time that I've ever heard the notion that akadama/kanuma are "naturally" calcined. Every definition that I've seen for calcination talks about it as a human-driven transformation.

Well... I need to do a better job checking my sources before opening my mouth Because some of the akadama I use is described as "calcined clay product" (Akadama Yaki and Akadama Tokoname) I assumed that's how it came out of the ground It turns out that it is heat-treated after it is removed. Apparently some akadama is calcined, some is not. So I am going to edit out my error in the above post

 

[sparklemotion]

Well... I need to do a better job checking my sources before opening my mouth Because some of the akadama I use is described as "calcined clay product" (Akadama Yaki and Akadama Tokoname) I assumed that's how it came out of the ground It turns out that it is heat-treated after it is removed. Apparently some akadama is calcined, some is not. So I am going to edit out my error in the above post

Thanks for clarifying. To your credit, even Ryan Neil has "misspoken" about this. In the Mirai Soils video he says that "akadama is not fired" and dismisses audience members who say that it says it is fired on the bag. I'm pretty sure that the situation is that the akadama that he uses isn't fired/calcined. But with all the brands and varying hardnesses, I think that it's difficult to really talk about the properties of "akadama" as if it were a consistent product.

 

[Anthony]

Calcination is the basic temperature that causes a heated clay to lose
it's ability to be plastic as a raw clay is.

For earthenware clay that that can be around I believe 660 to 760 deg.C
For stoneware and porcelain the temperature is higher for sintering.

This is just very basic and soft sinter bonding.

Akadama is an imperfect glass - just melted and cooled.
Decays into pumice and clay.
The closer the chemicals mix in the larva, to balance, the harder
and more durable the akadama will be.

I believe Akadama is heated to sterilize for importation regulations.

Earthenware clay heated to maturity [ for Trinidad brick 1040 deg.C ]
will take a million or so years to decay in soil.
This is why we use it in soil mixes, stable / durable / porous and a pretty
colour.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Bonsai Nut]

And now to confuse things even further, I am looking at the popular akadama brands to see which are fired and which are not. I assume "fired" means "calcined" but the descriptions aren't always specific - they just say "hardened" or similar...

Akadama brands not fired:

Akadama Jirushi



Akadama Ibaraki



Akadama brands fired

Akadama Yaki


Akadama Ryusen



Akadama Tokoname

 

[Anthony]

Bnut,

years ago, bought two bags of this.
Then fired it to around 1000 deg,C [ memory here]
It became friable and red.
Never used it though.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Anthony]

Would it not be easier to ask Scott where there is a deposit
of a similar substance in the US -------- and Cheaper ?

I think Cali-dama is hard pan - correct ?
Not quite the same.

After all the akadama mix reads as a man-made loam.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[hemmy]

Would it not be easier to ask Scott where there is a deposit
of a similar substance in the US -------- and Cheaper ?

His inorganics soil reference sheet has that information (Pacific NW of the US). Basically you just need volcanic deposits and rainfall, which occur at many locations along the Ring of Fire. It’s also probably no coincidence that this area of the US is so similar to portions of Japan in climate/physical geography and it’s also an increasingly active area for bonsai.

It will be interesting to see if anyone develops a substrate from this area, as it would be a tremendous amount of work (both physical and paperwork) for very little monetary gain. But maybe with increasing interest in container gardening and bonsai, plus its use as aquarium media, someone will be able to make a profitable business.

 

[Anthony]

Thanks Hemmy,

where soils in the US are concerned, I would be very ignorant.

Trinidad is an island of deposition and our base is supposedly
igneous, but under clay [ called sapote ] and it is more on
the acidic side.

Though we do have limestone / shattered marble zones, we still
have to visit the area/s to see what grows.
I doubt if the powers that be would allows us to import soils,
even if heat treated.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[M. Frary]

All this just makes me glad I use D.E.

 

[Cutty]

I have never heard of Akadama being referred to as common Kaolinite. My understand is it’s a base product of volcanic ash and Pumice in clay particle range.

Likewise, I have only read of akadam being heated not calcined.

 

[Cutty]

Where did you source your information about it being common Kaolinite? Or that it is even calcined?

If this was true, there would be an army of angry people who just spent a fortune importing calcined clay, which is simply kaolinite.

Turface is calcined clay (Kaolinite), Akadama is not.

I think Akadama would have to be the most misunderstood material in the hobby. All my research suggests Akadam is simply made from clay which is the result of the decomposition of pumice and volcanic ash. This very clay (small particles of pumice and volcanic ash) is then heated to the respective hardness found on the various Akadama products.

Further, the process of heating Akadama is quite different to it being calcined. My understanding is calcined products undergo change in form.

This is a very good article if anyone is interested:

http://houstonbonsaisociety.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Inorganic-Components-Reference-Sheet.pdf

I am sure the confusion will continue...

Scoria, Pumice, turface, zeolite, lava rock....

 

[sorce]

Do ask @markyscott .

This conversation is some quasihybrid commercial/geoillogical discussion of a nerdy soil war!

See just this Page. We first must define Calcine Before we can talk about it's effects.

The Earth made Akadama. If it's treated with heat for customs it's probably taken to much lower temperatures, which won't change the chemical composition.

Not only can these grades of Akadama have been made in one eruption, but if we consider millions of years of eruptions, differing sea levels which will change salt content and cooling rates, we can start to see how the Japanese are probably avoiding 98 deposits of Akadama, to bag the 3 grades that work.

Calcined, the human process as I know it for glazes, Takes the chemical water out of the clay. I've read 12 and 14% of total weight is chemical water. One must be wrong? Or it could be a different Clay.

Funny story....

We went to Andy's, that Ice Cream Place that's not as good as the one in the old neighborhood.....anyway...

They had a sign on the thing said Now Hiring $10.

I was like, "what's an SIO!?" Lol, she said "it says ten dollars dumbass!", Me without my glasses!

So when I realized silica is SiO2, it was a sign I was on the right path. I tell her I'm an SIO now!

Yeah, I love this game!

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

As an admirer of the soil wars, I love it when the settled science of Proper Bonsai Mixes has problems just characterizing the components. Yes, the absolutes are absolutely fixed. That's why we must only use only the mixes that everybody agrees is best for root growth and drainage. If three people agreed on any one formula, it would be nothing more than a coincidence. And unlikely to happen.

 

[Einre]

and regarding cat litters, if most of the brands are indeed what you told, there are also brands indeed being high fired and usable for bonsai. I use one and it's not breakng down since i bought my stock in 2009-2010

Where do you buy this cat litter you mentioned not breaking down? Can I order it online?

 

[Bnana]

I use it too. It depends on where you live whether you can order it. In the Netherlands it's called Linda Moler and costs 5.60 Euro for 20 liter.