Brazilian Rain Tree Leaves Not Opening - BRT

[cairolip21]

Hi there,
This is my first time posting to the forum so please redirect me if I've posted this in the wrong place.

This is the first year I put my BRT outside for spring/summer (I live in NY) and when I brought it back in, I think I came close to losing it. Nearly all of the leaves dropped and the soil was staying moist for almost 2 weeks at a time. I realized the soil was a bit compact and the soil temp was pretty cold (low 60's because the bay window base isn't insulated even though the ambient air around the plant was around 70) so I repotted and put it on a seedling heat mat and got it to recover and actually bloom for the first time!

This was back in December and it's been doing well since then, however, for the last week or two the leaves haven't been opening.

I have it under a grow light and I've been experimenting with distances in case it's too much when the sun is strong, and I have the seedling mat keeping the soil 69 degrees and above. It's drinking water correctly now needing water every 3 days or so, but still not opening. Any thoughts on what might be causing this or things I could try? I included a picture of the setup and a closeup of the tree in case that helps. The only other change since it started doing better was the addition of the moss. Any chance that might be causing it?

Thanks in advance,
Phil

 

[leatherback]

Any changes in the light intensity?

 

[cairolip21]

None other than my adjusting the height of the grow light because it was closing midday. I have a cheap moisture/ph/light sensor from Amazon and I currently have the grow light situated with about 1,000lux without the sun. It was much closer before, near 2,000 lux without sun.

 

[Carol 83]

One of mine is actually doing the same thing inside. Nothing (light, watering, soil) has changed. I've had it happen before. As long as the leaves are green and supple and don't dry up and fall off, I bet it will be fine.

 

[LanceMac10]

Light, heat and water cause a reflex action in the leaves.


Lush green moss indoors?

Might be too much moisture is the problem?

 

[LanceMac10]

I bring the small raintrees into the bathroom when I take a shower,( yes, the family think I'm a lunatic).

If I leave them in there and turn off the light, they close up, even if it's not the usual "time" ....

...too hot/too cold...they fold...

too dry, too wet...they fold..


In between the heat mat and possibly a bit too much moisture in the soil, the tree is showing stress....

 

[cairolip21]

I was thinking the moss might be an issue just due to the "coincidental" time that this all started happening. From what I was reading they said it was a good addition to bonsai's because it will help retain moisture. Figuring it's a rainforest tree I thought I'd gave it a try. I definitely don't want moss over my BRT so I'm down to pull it off and see what happens. The soil around the root ball is dropping to a 3 on the moisture meter within 3-4 days.

Do you think the heat mat might be causing stress too? It's on a thermostat to keep the soil 69+ and is hardly warm to the touch when it is heating.

Leaves still are green and supple, just not opening as much as they used to. Yesterday was only partially open and today they didn't open at all.

 

[Paradox]

Hi there,
This is my first time posting to the forum so please redirect me if I've posted this in the wrong place.

This is the first year I put my BRT outside for spring/summer (I live in NY) and when I brought it back in, I think I came close to losing it. Nearly all of the leaves dropped and the soil was staying moist for almost 2 weeks at a time. I realized the soil was a bit compact and the soil temp was pretty cold (low 60's because the bay window base isn't insulated even though the ambient air around the plant was around 70) so I repotted and put it on a seedling heat mat and got it to recover and actually bloom for the first time!

This was back in December and it's been doing well since then, however, for the last week or two the leaves haven't been opening.

I have it under a grow light and I've been experimenting with distances in case it's too much when the sun is strong, and I have the seedling mat keeping the soil 69 degrees and above. It's drinking water correctly now needing water every 3 days or so, but still not opening. Any thoughts on what might be causing this or things I could try? I included a picture of the setup and a closeup of the tree in case that helps. The only other change since it started doing better was the addition of the moss. Any chance that might be causing it?

Thanks in advance,
Phil

It has been very cold here in New York for the past week or so. Are you sure that the tree isnt getting any cold air from the window?
I keep my BRT under lights in my basement which has a very stable temperature. However the temperature on the trees does fluctuate between when the lights are on and when they turn off at night. It usually doesnt go below 65 down there most of the time.

How do you determine that the tree needs water? Do you just do it every 3 days regardless or do you actually use something like a chopstick in the soil to see how wet the soil is?
Mine get watered every day to every other day. Some days when its more humid outside (ie we have rain or wet snow) they often dont need to be watered. I check them every day and act accordingly.

Mine are under pretty strong lights (6 32 watt daylight 6700K fluorescent tubes) and are fairly close to them. One of them grows and burns its foliage on the light sometimes.

I would look at removing the moss and really watching the soil to determine when it needs water. I would also try to put it in a more temperature stable part of the room, away from the window.

 

[cairolip21]

It has been very cold here in New York for the past week or so. Are you sure that the tree isnt getting any cold air from the window?
I keep my BRT under lights in my basement which has a very stable temperature. However the temperature on the trees does fluctuate between when the lights are on and when they turn off at night. It usually doesnt go below 65 down there most of the time.

How do you determine that the tree needs water? Do you just do it every 3 days regardless or do you actually use something like a chopstick in the soil to see how wet the soil is?
Mine get watered every day to every other day. Some days when its more humid outside (ie we have rain or wet snow) they often dont need to be watered. I check them every day and act accordingly.

Mine are under pretty strong lights (6 32 watt daylight 6700K fluorescent tubes) and are fairly close to them. One of them grows and burns its foliage on the light sometimes.

I would look at removing the moss and really watching the soil to determine when it needs water. I would also try to put it in a more temperature stable part of the room, away from the window.

I put up insulation film before winter on the window and set up a thermometer to check for the temp and it all seemed good (dropping to 67 at the lowest at night) but it's definitely something to keep in mind. I'll see if I can figure out a better place for it. We're in a smallish apartment so there aren't a whole lot of options.

I use a moisture meter and check it every day or two. From what I've read the BRTs should let it drop to a 3 on the meter before watering which is what I've been doing. Takes about 3-4 days.
I'm glad to hear your lights are so close and there are no issues. Maybe I'll bring mine back down to where it was. It's LED so the heat shouldn't be an issue.

I'll be taking off the moss tonight and seeing how it does over the next few days. It could be keeping it just a bit too moist.

Thanks!

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

I have lush green moss on a ficus that gets dry AF if I let it go 3 days without watering.

I would take Carol's advice and not worry, because that will just cause you to add more possible causes for.... something that isn't even happening...ahem..Rona...ahemm....

Also....

Even if the temperature is the same for the tree, your heat still has to be on more when it's so cold out. That dry's the air more. Heats surfaces longer, because the air temp that is read can change faster than something like a countertop that will hold heat way longer.

I reckon those are the Real, and simple things that making this do this thing you shouldn't worry about.

Sorce

 

[LanceMac10]

Welcome to Crazy!

I have lush green moss on a ficus that gets dry AF if I let it go 3 days without watering.

I would take Carol's advice and not worry, because that will just cause you to add more possible causes for.... something that isn't even happening...ahem..Rona...ahemm....

Also....

Even if the temperature is the same for the tree, your heat still has to be on more when it's so cold out. That dry's the air more. Heats surfaces longer, because the air temp that is read can change faster than something like a countertop that will hold heat way longer.

I reckon those are the Real, and simple things that making this do this thing you shouldn't worry about.

Sorce

Lose the moss, the rock and the heat mat....that's the "Real".....

 

[cairolip21]

View attachment 353492




Lose the moss, the rock and the heat mat....that's the "Real".....

Haha the rock's mainly blocking the wire from the thermostat probe, but I've sorta grown to like it haha. The moss is out and I like the idea of not having the heat mat if I can.

I was concerned when it was near death and wanted to try and rule out the cold transferring from the base of the bay window and it seemed to bounce back quickly once I did that. (could've been a coincidence) Maybe it would be good if I just have the wood base as a buffer. I'll experiment and see how cold it starts to get if I drop the thermostat on the heat mat...

Does anyone have any idea of how cold they'd let it get overnight? I know they say it can get down to 45 before you need to bring it inside, but that seems excessive if they naturally are in 70 degree nights.

 

[LanceMac10]

Put it on a small table?

 

[cairolip21]

There's not much space to get it out of the window unfortunately. I do have a turntable stand that it was on but maybe the extra wood it's on now and the stand might be enough to do the trick. I'll start kicking down the thermostat on the mat and see how low it drops to overnight.

 

[LanceMac10]

....couple a few things......

tropical trees can be re-potted pretty much any time, provided appropriate aftercare is in place....a better approach is to re-pot prior to the optimum growing weather OUTDOORS for best results....

 

[LanceMac10]

d.i.y. a small "table" to lift it off the cold sill....


ya' live in an igloo? your temperature is fine...

 

[cairolip21]

....couple a few things......

tropical trees can be re-potted pretty much any time, provided appropriate aftercare is in place....a better approach is to re-pot prior to the optimum growing weather OUTDOORS for best results....

Yea I didn't plan to do the repot but when it wasn't drying out for nearly 2 weeks someone suggested the soil might be too compact and it was definitely tight. It was a last ditch hit the reset button effort. I used the same soil and just reset it looser. Between that and the extra heat it came back. So I'm just thankful I didn't lose it. I've had it going on 4+ years now from when I bought it.

 

[cairolip21]

d.i.y. a small "table" to lift it off the cold sill....


ya' live in an igloo? your temperature is fine...

Haha ok that's what I'm thinking. I thought you were suggesting get it out of the window. I've got a nice stand that I made for it. I could put that on the wood or just another base of sorts to lift it off.

I hoped my temp was fine but when I saw the soil temp dropping to low 60's even though the house was 72 I got confused/concerned.

 

[LanceMac10]

...how cold.....?



...9-30-17....32 degrees...outdoors....

 

[cairolip21]

...how cold.....?

View attachment 353503

...9-30-17....32 degrees...outdoors....

Hahahahaha are you serious?! I know I'm a relative newbie to this, but that's impressive. I had no clue they were that resilient. I figured a tropical tree needed just that... Tropical temps.

It was just in such rough shape I was grasping at straws not to lose it. I saw the temps hitting 62 for the soil around 8pm and figured it was probably dropping too low at night and stressing it out even further. Clearly, that's probably not the case. I'm gonna get it off the heat mat, lift up the wood that it's sitting on, and put it back on its stand with a humidity tray underneath which it's always done well with. It's gotta be the moisture that was causing it the first time with too compact of soil and then again with the moss.