HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
“Soul slab!” I like that.... i see SO many slabs, though...
Do you have some government parks close?... any River or Lake access...
Beaches have good slabs, if you dig.
Brainstorming mountainside mixed forest
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“Soul slab!” I like that.... i see SO many slabs, though...
Do you have some government parks close?... any River or Lake access...
Beaches have good slabs, if you dig.
ABCarve
Masterpiece
This is composed of kingsville boxwood, dwarf thuja, echinoforma spruce. It’s a bit more developed now. The photo is 5 years old. 
Leo in N E Illinois
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Seriously, you will be much better off if you try using one of the shimpaku cultivars, over ERC. If you like the upright form, go for 'Foemina' or if you find it, Juniper rigida, aka 'Tosho', of course 'Itoigawa' and 'Kishu' both are the "silly putty" of plant world, you can train them to any style. But they will "behave" in a forest planting. I'm afraid ERC's natural tendency toward loose foliage will always look juvenile or untrained, in your forest plantings, especially smaller forests. If you "go big", say over a meter tall, then ERC may end up looking okay. You also have the issue with ERC being very susceptible to cedar-apple rust, which if you have an outbreak in your forest can ruin years of work.
Just my 2 cents.
Eastern hemlock is a good choice. Hinoki is a good choice.
Be sure to consider the very short needle Picea orientalis, the oriental spruce also called the Caucasian Spruce, as in Caucasus Mountains. Its common name came at a time when in common speech, Turkey and parts east were considered "the Orient". The needles of Picea orientalis are as short as the needles of the Ezo spruce, which is the popular spruce to use in Japan, and a difficult spruce to source in North America. Picea orientalis is more heat tolerant than Ezo spruce, for those in warm summer areas. A good stand in for Red Spruce of the Appalachians, Picea rubens does not tolerate high nighttime summer heat, where as Picea orientalis is somewhat more tolerant.
Elms, and hornbeams are good.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
Sorry about the sand.. hehe.
About 45-60lbs.. only had to “hump it” like a quarter-mile... but rocky (literally) terrain.
About 45-60lbs.. only had to “hump it” like a quarter-mile... but rocky (literally) terrain.
Kanorin
Omono
Leo, your 2 cents are probably going to save me dozens - if not hundreds - of dollars and years of time.
Thanks so much for your input!
@HorseloverFat I actually did find a possible slab on my small property...and it's not even concrete! I'll attempt to excavate it and take a picture soon.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
JoeR
Masterpiece
I wonder if they're open now with covid. Might take a trip out there if they are, thanks for sharingOkay, I did some work for you. Actually, I save photos of good examples of trees, either bonsai, or nature, for inspiration.
Bonsai Bark, a blog worth subscribing to, posted by Wayne Schoech, of Stone Lantern Publishing. Back in 2014 he posted a series of posts on forest plantings. The link to his blog is here
Bonsai Bark
stonelantern.com
I saved these photos from his 2014 posts about forests. These were taken at the Asheville NC Arboretum, the 2014 Carolina Expo. I believe these were all created by Arthur Joura, the bonsai collection curator. of the 5 forests, 4 are mixed species. If you zoom in, you might be able to read labels for species names. I did not make additional notes. If you search the Bonsai Bark Blog, you can find Wayne Schoech's original blog comments where he might have mentioned species, or an interview with Arthur, where he might have discussed species choices.
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This last forest, if I remember correctly, was styled after a specific place. The junipers were chosen as stand ins for red spruce, or balsam fir, and the Azalea kiusianum was chosen as a stand in for the large leaf Rhododendron you see in the Appalachian Mountains.
Arthur Joura is famous for recreating Appalachian images in his bonsai. He tends toward naturalistic styles, much like Walter Pall does. You should make yourself familiar with his work.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
I think these are the taxus hicksii cuttings I will use. 
ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
Just got to this one.
First, I love this idea. It's my ultimate bonsai dream too.
Second, why limit yourself to trees? There are allot of small shrubs that might hold the size and shape you'll be looking for much easier. Here the Gramble's scrub oak looks the same age after a year as after 20. A rosemary might be trained to stand in for a conifer. Maybe not the best examples, but it's something to consider.
Third, maybe make it less of a single thing, and just build a whole multilevel bench that could be done up to look however you want. Then you just set it with individual rock plantings, and fill the empty spaces with "accent" pieces or modeling components like was mentioned before. Mobile, multipurpose, and dying or out of control trees can be swapped out easily.
Fourth, a hidden drip irrigation system, the excess water from which could be directed into your "stream" then collected in a tiny fish pond at the end to be recirculated by a tiny pump? You could just put a few drops of fertilizer in the pond when it's needed like hydroponics outfits.
Just some thoughts if it helps out.
First, I love this idea. It's my ultimate bonsai dream too.
Second, why limit yourself to trees? There are allot of small shrubs that might hold the size and shape you'll be looking for much easier. Here the Gramble's scrub oak looks the same age after a year as after 20. A rosemary might be trained to stand in for a conifer. Maybe not the best examples, but it's something to consider.
Third, maybe make it less of a single thing, and just build a whole multilevel bench that could be done up to look however you want. Then you just set it with individual rock plantings, and fill the empty spaces with "accent" pieces or modeling components like was mentioned before. Mobile, multipurpose, and dying or out of control trees can be swapped out easily.
Fourth, a hidden drip irrigation system, the excess water from which could be directed into your "stream" then collected in a tiny fish pond at the end to be recirculated by a tiny pump? You could just put a few drops of fertilizer in the pond when it's needed like hydroponics outfits.
Just some thoughts if it helps out.
Kanorin
Omono
Thanks for the comments. This one, in particular, I like a lot. Especially in the first 1-2 years of acquiring the pieces and planning it out. It will allow me to see which trees look good together and get a sense for what sort of relative distance and elevation change I would need to get a perspective that feels right. Having pieces that can move a bit will definitely help.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
Mine is (ideally) going to have a “water component”
As well as grasses/mosses.. and other plants.. (i’ve been wanting to do a cinquefoil project)
As well as grasses/mosses.. and other plants.. (i’ve been wanting to do a cinquefoil project)
leatherback
The Treedeemer
You are not seriously considering using this are you?
Do keep in mind, need to move, to work on it etcetc.
To me, it looks like unmanageble on the long run?
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
I appreciate physical labor... i might use it.. I have it at home already... I found more today too... only like 35 lbs... I’ve no LACK of rocks, nor an unpleasant disposition towards exercise.
By the time I’m unable to move it.. my son will be a “man”
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
These are two of the Amur cuttings I am considering.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
Two honeysuckle cuttings.. possibly to shape into small bushes... still just “kicking ideas around”
Kanorin
Omono
Found some great deals on ordering some missouri native seedlings from the missouri department of conservation. Might make this more of an Ozark "mountain" forest. I know the ozarks aren't really mountains, but I digress.
Perhaps some shortleaf pine - Pinus echinata
It seems like some people around here are just starting to dabble with this native species, but still a lot to be learned about it. Could be a fun project.
Perhaps some shortleaf pine - Pinus echinata
It seems like some people around here are just starting to dabble with this native species, but still a lot to be learned about it. Could be a fun project.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
Leo, those are the most beautiful plantings I have ever seen. Quite inspiring.
Leo in N E Illinois
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@Kanorin
Interesting list, some good ones on the list. I went through the list, because I could order and have them ship to my sister in Saint Louis. I might put in an order, have not decided. Made some notes for myself, but I thought I'd share, maybe save you some time. All the oaks have the same problem. They are slow to get to the point where their leaves are small enough to consider putting them in a mixed planting.
Taxodium disticha - bald cypress - good as single species forest. Difficult to mix species with it, except maybe button bush - Cephalanthus occidentalis - comes from same flooded habitats as bald cypress, will grow well submerged for part of the year.
Cephalanthus occidentalis - buttonbush. Leaves are small enough, it could be used in mixed forest plantings. It tolerates wet soils. It can survive with roots flooded for most of the year. But it does not need its roots flooded.
Rhus aromatica - aromatic sumac - so far has proved "pretty okay" for bonsai, but I'm only 3 years from seed. Small enough leaves. Probably good for a mixed forest.
Nyssa sylvatica - black gum - in theory great for bonsai - in practice there are issues, all who have reported had trouble. Maybe a bad choice for mixed species forests. But might work, little is known.
Ilex serrulata - deciduous holly - excellent for bonsai, small leaves, beautiful winter berries, but must have a male somewhere within 50 feet to ensure pollination. Good for mixed species forests.
Quercus macrocarpa - Bur Oak and Quercus velutina - Black oak - and other oaks on the list; all have large leaves, that do eventually reduce, but probably not good for mixed species forests.
Crataegus viridis - Green Hawthorn - seedlings should work well in a mixed forest. Certainly good for individual bonsai
Celtis occidentalis & laevis - Hackberry - both species of hackberry are good for mixed forests and good as individual tree bonsai
Picea abies - Norway spruce - not a Missouri native, but could be used in a mixed species forest. Has a good track record as bonsai.
Maclura pomifera - Osage orange - leaves are small enough can be worked into a mixed forest. Only allow fruit on largest of individual specimen bonsai. Jim Lewis, RIP, had some decent Osage orange bonsai.
Diospyros virginiana - Persimmon - leaves are big, but reduce well, a bit touchy about how roots are handled, but could be worked into a mixed forest, at least in theory. Good for medium to large bonsai as individual specimens.
Pinus (rigida x taeda) hybrid pine - might be good, might be too vigorous.
Amelanchier arborea - Service berry - definitely good for a mixed forest. Good as individual bonsai, good for smaller size bonsai. Slow to develop trunk caliper. Lovely white flowers before leaves in spring.
Pinus echinata - shortleaf pine - this pine sounds really interesting to try out as bonsai. Probably best as individual species forest, rather than mixed forest.
Spicebush - Lindera benzoin - K Murata had a lovely Japanese Lindera forest, the USA species should be as good. Leaves are on large size, but reduce well. superficially similar to persimmon leaves.
Washington hawthorn - Crataegus phaenopyrum - excellent as bonsai, individual or single species forest. Should be able to work it into a mixed forest.
White Fringe Tree - Chionanthus virginicus - bad choice for bonsai, bad choice for forest - from my personal experience. Branching too coarse. leaves too large and don't reduce.
Wild Plum - Prunus sp, - excellent for bonsai - mixed forest may be possible. Flowers before leaves in spring.
Witch hazel - Hamamelis vernalis Spring or late winter witch hazel - and Hamamelis virginiana - autumn or winter flowering witch hazel. - both species have leaves on large size. Might be difficult to work into a mixed forest. Both are good for a single species forest.
Interesting list, some good ones on the list. I went through the list, because I could order and have them ship to my sister in Saint Louis. I might put in an order, have not decided. Made some notes for myself, but I thought I'd share, maybe save you some time. All the oaks have the same problem. They are slow to get to the point where their leaves are small enough to consider putting them in a mixed planting.
Taxodium disticha - bald cypress - good as single species forest. Difficult to mix species with it, except maybe button bush - Cephalanthus occidentalis - comes from same flooded habitats as bald cypress, will grow well submerged for part of the year.
Cephalanthus occidentalis - buttonbush. Leaves are small enough, it could be used in mixed forest plantings. It tolerates wet soils. It can survive with roots flooded for most of the year. But it does not need its roots flooded.
Rhus aromatica - aromatic sumac - so far has proved "pretty okay" for bonsai, but I'm only 3 years from seed. Small enough leaves. Probably good for a mixed forest.
Nyssa sylvatica - black gum - in theory great for bonsai - in practice there are issues, all who have reported had trouble. Maybe a bad choice for mixed species forests. But might work, little is known.
Ilex serrulata - deciduous holly - excellent for bonsai, small leaves, beautiful winter berries, but must have a male somewhere within 50 feet to ensure pollination. Good for mixed species forests.
Quercus macrocarpa - Bur Oak and Quercus velutina - Black oak - and other oaks on the list; all have large leaves, that do eventually reduce, but probably not good for mixed species forests.
Crataegus viridis - Green Hawthorn - seedlings should work well in a mixed forest. Certainly good for individual bonsai
Celtis occidentalis & laevis - Hackberry - both species of hackberry are good for mixed forests and good as individual tree bonsai
Picea abies - Norway spruce - not a Missouri native, but could be used in a mixed species forest. Has a good track record as bonsai.
Maclura pomifera - Osage orange - leaves are small enough can be worked into a mixed forest. Only allow fruit on largest of individual specimen bonsai. Jim Lewis, RIP, had some decent Osage orange bonsai.
Diospyros virginiana - Persimmon - leaves are big, but reduce well, a bit touchy about how roots are handled, but could be worked into a mixed forest, at least in theory. Good for medium to large bonsai as individual specimens.
Pinus (rigida x taeda) hybrid pine - might be good, might be too vigorous.
Amelanchier arborea - Service berry - definitely good for a mixed forest. Good as individual bonsai, good for smaller size bonsai. Slow to develop trunk caliper. Lovely white flowers before leaves in spring.
Pinus echinata - shortleaf pine - this pine sounds really interesting to try out as bonsai. Probably best as individual species forest, rather than mixed forest.
Spicebush - Lindera benzoin - K Murata had a lovely Japanese Lindera forest, the USA species should be as good. Leaves are on large size, but reduce well. superficially similar to persimmon leaves.
Washington hawthorn - Crataegus phaenopyrum - excellent as bonsai, individual or single species forest. Should be able to work it into a mixed forest.
White Fringe Tree - Chionanthus virginicus - bad choice for bonsai, bad choice for forest - from my personal experience. Branching too coarse. leaves too large and don't reduce.
Wild Plum - Prunus sp, - excellent for bonsai - mixed forest may be possible. Flowers before leaves in spring.
Witch hazel - Hamamelis vernalis Spring or late winter witch hazel - and Hamamelis virginiana - autumn or winter flowering witch hazel. - both species have leaves on large size. Might be difficult to work into a mixed forest. Both are good for a single species forest.
Kanorin
Omono
@Leo in N E Illinois what do you think about one of the dogwoods as part of the mix, C. racemosa or C. drummondii?
I'm also very tempted to try to do something with plums - my grandfather used to grow some type of plum and make brandy (slivovice) from them.
Do plums take several years to begin flowering?
I'm also very tempted to try to do something with plums - my grandfather used to grow some type of plum and make brandy (slivovice) from them.
Do plums take several years to begin flowering?
Leo in N E Illinois
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Dogwood, Cornus mas has a good track record as bonsai. Cornus florida, there are some extraordinarily beautiful bonsai examples, but is generally known to be a bit tricky to work with. Again leaves of C. florida do not reduce as nicely as one might hope. The exquisite examples, are in bloom, and almost literati like in being very slender, graceful, sparse trees with just a few flowers in spring. Cornus kousa - has smaller leaves, better disease resistance in North America, and probably is a little better for bonsai. But generally the dogwoods will have leaves just large enough to make them difficult to use in a mixed species forest. They will make an attractive single species forest. The other tree like dogwoods have been occasionally used for bonsai, some to better effect than others. The shrubby dogwoods, they sucker often, making tree styles difficult. The red twig dogwoods have been used to make kusamono plantings, especially larger Sanyasou type kusamono. Sanyasou is where the kusamono is the focal point of the display. Here the size of the Sanyasou can cover the same range as bonsai, from shohin to Imperial sizes. One example of sanyasou is a 6 foot tall Rhus secunda owned by Kimura. Often photographed in autumn, it isn't until you see a photo with Kimura next to it that you realize it is taller than he it. That piece is considered Sanyasou, rather than bonsai. So yes, for dogwood as bonsai, or kusamono. But it is a next level up group to use. No reason to not start experimenting right away, but not a "beginner tree". So gray dogwood, C. racemosa, and rough leaf dogwood, C. drummondii, would have good spring flower interest, good autumn color and good winter berry color. They will tend to sucker rather than develop tree like trunks, but they can be made to be very attractive. If you were diligent at removing suckers, you might be able to get 2 inch diameter trunks, but not much larger than that. You could use either to make a grove of suckers from the same root system, to "stand in" for a forest. The small white flowers and the berries might be really nice. You could mix other species in with them. Go for it.
Slivovice - or as my people spell it, Slivovitz - is made from Damson plums - Prunus domestica var insititia, which are thought to be a smaller version or closer to wild version of the domestic European plum. Dark purple skin, yellow-green flesh. They are clingstone, flesh clinging to the seed, and the seed is furrowed. Flesh has some astringency, is used mostly cooked in fruit preserves, or to make fermented brandy like Slivovitz. Wikipedia thinks damson plums might be actually a sport or mutation of the sloe plum, Prunus spinosa. One would have to check the Ag research, to find out if genetics have been done on damson plums. To sum up, they make excellent bonsai. White flowers before leaves unfurl in spring. Fairly small trees, easily worked into bonsai proportions. Rough, fissured, black bark on mature trees, all in all good for bonsai.
Pluims can take 3 to 10 years from seed to begin flowering. Similar are peach and apricot. Apples & Hawthorns are famous for taking more than 10 years to flower from seed. Cherries are between Plums and apples in the time required. The ranges are large, because if you start with 100 seedlings of one species, one or two out of the 100 may gallop ahead and bloom very rapidly, say in as little as 3 or 4 years for peach. Then the middle 50 seedlings will come into bloom at the average for the species, for plums might be around 5 to 7 years, and then there will be the stragglers, I've known some that have apples they raised from seed that at 30 years are still waiting for the first bloom.
For all, once they mature enough to begin blooming, they will be pretty reliable and bloom every year afterward. Cuttings and air layerings from blooming trees will retain the ability to bloom right away.
As always, horticulture is everything. A well grown vigorous seedling will bloom sooner than one that is not as healthy, not as vigorous or one that keeps getting set back by frequent repotting and other plant torture.
The wait for plums should not be too long,
Slivovice - or as my people spell it, Slivovitz - is made from Damson plums - Prunus domestica var insititia, which are thought to be a smaller version or closer to wild version of the domestic European plum. Dark purple skin, yellow-green flesh. They are clingstone, flesh clinging to the seed, and the seed is furrowed. Flesh has some astringency, is used mostly cooked in fruit preserves, or to make fermented brandy like Slivovitz. Wikipedia thinks damson plums might be actually a sport or mutation of the sloe plum, Prunus spinosa. One would have to check the Ag research, to find out if genetics have been done on damson plums. To sum up, they make excellent bonsai. White flowers before leaves unfurl in spring. Fairly small trees, easily worked into bonsai proportions. Rough, fissured, black bark on mature trees, all in all good for bonsai.
Pluims can take 3 to 10 years from seed to begin flowering. Similar are peach and apricot. Apples & Hawthorns are famous for taking more than 10 years to flower from seed. Cherries are between Plums and apples in the time required. The ranges are large, because if you start with 100 seedlings of one species, one or two out of the 100 may gallop ahead and bloom very rapidly, say in as little as 3 or 4 years for peach. Then the middle 50 seedlings will come into bloom at the average for the species, for plums might be around 5 to 7 years, and then there will be the stragglers, I've known some that have apples they raised from seed that at 30 years are still waiting for the first bloom.
For all, once they mature enough to begin blooming, they will be pretty reliable and bloom every year afterward. Cuttings and air layerings from blooming trees will retain the ability to bloom right away.
As always, horticulture is everything. A well grown vigorous seedling will bloom sooner than one that is not as healthy, not as vigorous or one that keeps getting set back by frequent repotting and other plant torture.
The wait for plums should not be too long,
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