Boxwood Shohin?

My noob opinion:

I don't think these will "never pan out", they will just take longer IF you're looking for a fat trunk.

I think it's good (and fun) to try growing trees from seed, messing around with cheaper stuff, and going for higher quality bonsai. All the experimentation you are doing is only increasing your knowledge. I don't have any real bonsai, but I'm learning a hell of a lot by having different options to work with.

I would think that one would learn a lot more, not to mention do a lot more, having a variety of stuff to work with. For me right now, I'd rather have a bunch of seedlings and nursery material to work with than one real nice bonsai that I get to work on a couple times a year.
 
@Wulfskaar - I agree, a MIXED collection is the best way to learn all aspects of bonsai. It is critical to have at least one advanced tree, as there are many techniques used on advanced trees that are not used on more raw materials.

@Katie0317 - the OP is in Pennsylvania, a state with cold winters, snow and freezing weather. He needs trees that are winter hardy in his area. I personally love Wigert's, I've been there twice, and I have bought a tree or two from them. But almost all of Wigert's stock is sub-tropical or tropical, and won't survive cold winters. Most of us northerners don't have room for more than a handful of "indoors for the winter" trees. I have my one Ficus, and a Fortunella kumquat. I suspect the reason the OP isn't responding to your suggestions for getting more from Wigert's, is he doesn't have room for more indoor plants.

I do like Wigert's, they have some really cool tropicals and sub-tropicals. They do have elms and dawn redwood and bald cypress which are hardy in to zone 5b. But most of their stuff is more tender. I do recommend Wigert's if anyone is looking for sub-tropicals or tropicals. They also have a good selection of bonsai pots from American, EU, and Japanese potters. Many one of a kind pots.
 
@Wulfskaar - I agree, a MIXED collection is the best way to learn all aspects of bonsai. It is critical to have at least one advanced tree, as there are many techniques used on advanced trees that are not used on more raw materials.

@Katie0317 - the OP is in Pennsylvania, a state with cold winters, snow and freezing weather. He needs trees that are winter hardy in his area. I personally love Wigert's, I've been there twice, and I have bought a tree or two from them. But almost all of Wigert's stock is sub-tropical or tropical, and won't survive cold winters. Most of us northerners don't have room for more than a handful of "indoors for the winter" trees. I have my one Ficus, and a Fortunella kumquat. I suspect the reason the OP isn't responding to your suggestions for getting more from Wigert's, is he doesn't have room for more indoor plants.

I do like Wigert's, they have some really cool tropicals and sub-tropicals. They do have elms and dawn redwood and bald cypress which are hardy in to zone 5b. But most of their stuff is more tender. I do recommend Wigert's if anyone is looking for sub-tropicals or tropicals. They also have a good selection of bonsai pots from American, EU, and Japanese potters. Many one of a kind pots.
That's reasonable but lots of nurseries in other parts of the country sell pre-bonsai. They're on Ebay and Etsy too. Just suggesting investing in an actual plant that's already been appropriately selected to become a bonsai. For a beginner to go to random nurseries looking for suitable material seems counter-intuitive to me. I'd rather buy from a bonsai specialist, an online nursery. I just chose Wigert's because I'm aware of them but other nurseries sell pre-bonsai too. Do you buy pre-bonsai online? Maybe you can give him a referral. I'm more interested in the tropicals and subtropicals anyway. I like deciduous trees and don't have an interest in pines, firs etc...
If OP joined a club maybe he could buy there or learn yamidori from someone in his area...something he expressed interest in. It's hard to learn on your own so joining a group or finding at least one other person in his area might be helpful too. But you make a good point and I get that Wigert's may not be for people up north.
 
I think both of you are right - sorry if I seemed to be ignoring your recommendation on Wigerts; a lot of those trees aren't great for outdoors in my area and my current home has limited real estate for indoor plants due to not many sunny windows.

I'll look online for any nurseries in my area that sell pre-bonsai in the proper sense of the word. I also like the suggestion of keeping a mixed collection as, perhaps unefficiently, I really do enjoy working on nursery stock. I have a lot more fun trunk chopping a $15 thick Japanese green maple and watching how it back buds, than the idea of buying something halfway done and just light pruning for the foreseeable future. I understand the value in buying pre-bonsai but I definitely want to gain experience with a variety of starting material. Perhaps I can focus more on pre-bonsai going forward and once I feel more comfortable, I'll invest in a really nice tree from a nursery. I just struggle mentally with the idea of showing off a tree and someone saying "wow that looks amazing, how'd you do that?" and having to reply "oh, well I bought it from Wigerts and cut a few leaves and small branches and now it looks a bit more refined". I instead love the idea of starting from a shitty looking shrub or an unkempt mess and turning that into something beautiful. I have more pride in my amateur looking trees than I think I'd have in any pre-bonsai because pretty or not, the result is a 100% reflection of my skill. And over time, I can look at my trees and see a physical change in my abilities which led to each finished product. Maybe I'm ranting about something pointless but that's my current mindset. Perhaps it's an immature one but I'll take you both up on the mixed collection idea and post some updates when I find somewhere that sells good proper starting material
 
To use your example, buying a prebonsai Japanese maple that's "halfway done" still leaves a LOT of work to do before you're at the "just light pruning" stage. While there are varying definitions and qualities of "pre-bonsai," my (at minimum) definition is a tree whose roots have been properly dealt with and has the lowest portion of the trunk established. As the pricetag goes up, the level of refinement goes with it.

I remember the allure of big box garden centers and nurseries. I still visit a couple nurseries, but without a burning hole in my pocket. My collection quickly ballooned to a collection of sticks on which I'd already done all the work possible so the only option was to buy another or wait. Early on in bonsai, the work on a particular tree doesn't take too long. It makes a great before and after, but the act of trunk chopping doesn't take near as long as needle plucking a mature pine or pinching a japanese maple the first few weeks of spring. (On a given day, the pinching session might take 5 minutes, but you might come back to the tree 3x a week for the first several weeks.) There's also less to learn on younger material.

There IS value in the sticks in pot phase, but its easy to get covered up in poor material and that poor material is easy to get attached to. Before all your available space and budget is filled with poor material, make room for material that has the ability to teach you. It sounds like you've been pointed to several places that are likely to have better material. Sounds like a good excuse for a weekend roadtrip.

(If you're going to hang out with sticks in pots for a little while, my strong recommendation is to NOT treat the material as if its cheap. Give it your BEST work, and when your work gets better, go back and make what you worked on better. Don't let their price be an excuse for sloppy work.)
 
That's a fair point, I didn't factor the future into my reasoning - I can definitely see how a collection could balloon into something that eats all my time up, especially if most of it is just cheapo trees. I'll have to give pre-bonsai a proper chance, maybe I'll just buy the trees which appear to need the most work and perhaps that will fulfill my "before and after" transformation preference.
 
Here is a proper photo after some cutting back, I hope it'll at least show why I had the idea in the first place. Pretty nice roots for a pencil
That’s a nice little tree. I did the same thing you did.I separated the boxwoods in the pot and now I have two trees. In a few years they will be splendid.
 

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I think both of you are right - sorry if I seemed to be ignoring your recommendation on Wigerts; a lot of those trees aren't great for outdoors in my area and my current home has limited real estate for indoor plants due to not many sunny windows.

I'll look online for any nurseries in my area that sell pre-bonsai in the proper sense of the word. I also like the suggestion of keeping a mixed collection as, perhaps unefficiently, I really do enjoy working on nursery stock. I have a lot more fun trunk chopping a $15 thick Japanese green maple and watching how it back buds, than the idea of buying something halfway done and just light pruning for the foreseeable future. I understand the value in buying pre-bonsai but I definitely want to gain experience with a variety of starting material. Perhaps I can focus more on pre-bonsai going forward and once I feel more comfortable, I'll invest in a really nice tree from a nursery. I just struggle mentally with the idea of showing off a tree and someone saying "wow that looks amazing, how'd you do that?" and having to reply "oh, well I bought it from Wigerts and cut a few leaves and small branches and now it looks a bit more refined". I instead love the idea of starting from a shitty looking shrub or an unkempt mess and turning that into something beautiful. I have more pride in my amateur looking trees than I think I'd have in any pre-bonsai because pretty or not, the result is a 100% reflection of my skill. And over time, I can look at my trees and see a physical change in my abilities which led to each finished product. Maybe I'm ranting about something pointless but that's my current mindset. Perhaps it's an immature one but I'll take you both up on the mixed collection idea and post some updates when I find somewhere that sells good proper starting material
Don't know where you are in Eastern Pa., but have you been to Jim Doyle's place out near Harrisburg--Nature's Way?

Or closer to Philly, Chase Rosade's nursery in New Hope?

I haven't been to Chase's place in a very long time, but I know he continues to have excellent trees. I still have a big trident maple I got from him back in the late 1990's. He is one of the American bonsai pioneers, beginning as an apprentice in Japan in the 1960's (which was pretty rare at the time) and moving to his own practice here in the states in the 70's.

I was at Nature's Way a few years ago. Jim had a ton of stuff.

Both offer a range of material, from extremely advanced to good starter trees. No, they're not cheap, but both can give you some perspective. Both are worth visiting in any case since you're in their neighborhood-ish

Some photos in both these articles show some of his more advanced trees
 
I'm 66 yrs right now, I started bonsai when I was 15 years old, became fascinated with photos from books and photos my father took in Japan. I was cocky, I thought I could teach myself from books and eventually the internet, that is when Al Gore got around to "inventing the internet" (that's a joke, Gore didn't invent the internet). I was about 48 years old when I took a critical look at my bonsai. One of my trees had survived all my childhood mistakes, it had been with me since I was 15, a pomegranate, a good critical look and I realized it still looked like crap. A shrub in a pot. Over 35 years of reading books and going my own way and none of my 30+ some trees looked like much of anything. That is when I decided to join a club. To get some hands on experience. I joined the Milwaukee Bonsai Society because one member, Jack Douthitt was there. I had seen his trees at shows at our local botanic garden. I wanted to get time with him to pick his brain.

So that was 2004. The experience was eye opening. Probably the biggest revelation was learning that there are techniques for different stages in the tree's development. With pines, candle pruning is only for certain pines, and not for any young material, it is only for later stage, developed material. Pinching a maple right after the first 2 leaves appears is only for more mature, developed maples, not for a young seedling. All the nuances of timing and when to apply what technique were things the books, and internet can not teach you. Also made a new bunch of friends. All in all, it was the best experience for me.

So not everyone is a club "joiner", but I really strongly suggest you join a club, so you can see in person various techniques applied and get hands on experience. Study groups are good too, very good, bonsai societies tend to be the host for study groups, or the vehicle through which people find each other to form study groups.

And most important, it is though clubs that you can sometimes get very affordable advanced material. The average age of Milwaukee Bonsai Society is around 60, with a number of members in their 80's or older, and a few members as young as 11 or 12, some in their 20's and a scattering of all ages. It seems once a year, sometimes more, occasionally less, one of our senior members is forced to downsize or has a health crisis. You can often pick up show quality trees at very modest prices. Sometimes a dead brings a number of trees to the club. More often it is members selling a home and moving to an apartment or care home situation.

There is a HUGE difference in care a mature, show quality tree will require versus seedlings, and young nursery sourced material. A mature azalea, or pomegranate, or elm will require as much as 8 to 10 hours just to wire out foliage pads. This gets done at least once a year. Just removing spent flower buds on an azalea can take a couple hours. The detail work a refined tree needs every year is difficult to appreciate until you have done it yourself. Here a club is good because often senior members will bring a tree in, or invite someone over to help with their own trees. Everyone should have some trees they are raising from seed, some that are from young nursery stock, maybe a wild collected yamadori or two, and one or two exhibition quality trees. That sort of diversity will teach you more about bonsai than just having one phase of the hobby going.

So join a club, or at least attend a few meetings. We had someone in the Milwaukee society attend meetings for years, and when they got elected to the board, they finally admitted they had not bothered to join, they paid up dues for a year and then took their position on the board. Most clubs are pretty casual about letting people attend without joining, so you can see if you like the group. Each group has their own dynamics. I live between Chicago and Milwaukee, travel time to either club is about the same. The Chicago club had many members wearing business suites, as they came to the Monday night meetings straight from the office. Average income for the Chicago group was pretty high. The Milwaukee group meets Tuesday evening, and the attire was mostly blue jeans and flannel shirts, very Wisconsin. I ended up joining the Milwaukee group, as I am more comfortable in blue jeans and flannel shirts. So each group has their own dynamics.

On the American Bonsai Society website they list all the member clubs. Look over the Pennsylvania listing and check out all the clubs within a reasonable drive from your place. If you are lucky, you might have more than one club in a "reasonable drive".

 
You can make a really nice mame from that!
Not sure I can fit it into the size requirements for mame as it's already perhaps 6" tall but perhaps you know something I don't, is there a way to encourage this boxwood to back bud and give me lower branches that I can cut back to? The photo makes it look smaller than it is, to make a convincing or even a technically classified mame out of it would be quite the endeavor as far as I know.
 
Not sure I can fit it into the size requirements for mame as it's already perhaps 6" tall but perhaps you know something I don't, is there a way to encourage this boxwood to back bud and give me lower branches that I can cut back to? The photo makes it look smaller than it is, to make a convincing or even a technically classified mame out of it would be quite the endeavor as far as I know.
I am not a boxwood fan, so I cannot provide any assistance with them back budding. But from your picture the trunk is still mostly green. Most all plants will readily push out buds when cut back. If you can confirm it will back bud, you can cut back and start a new leader. Reduce the top and then let it stabilize then reduce the bottom. Don't do both at the same time.
 
I'm just playing around with the idea of trying to branch out (no pun intended) to other forms, mainly shohin. At this point, it's just a curiosity and I really don't know anything specific about achieving such an end product.
What I do have though, are 3 small-ish boxwood trees from a clump that I saw at Home Depot, just itching to be separated and planted individually. Three trees for the price of one, not bad I'd say!
After seeing their roots and potting each of them up, I had the idea to start training this one while I let the others grow out in proper pots.
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It was a cheapo Boxwood so I understand it's not much to look at but it actually has some really neat nebari which I just realized appears to be covered in this photo 🙄
Can anyone comment on the potential, or lack thereof, that this tree has? I'm not familiar enough with shohin to know if thin or thick trunks are "in style". My plan as of now, is to try to build ramification in the branches and style it to resemble a juvenile tree, and to sell the look, I'd make and install a small scale replica of those wooden posts and wire that people use to train landscape trees.
Can someone let me know if this is a completely dumb idea? I know the general goal is to create a style that resembles a mature tree found in nature but for some reason, I just really like how cute this tree would be if it were styled differently. In my eyes, if this 7-inch shohin can look like a 12-foot landscape tree, that still counts as a valid styling.
About a few years back I, too, bought a cheap ($5.00) boxwood only from Walmart. In the pot was a second tree almost exactly like yours (same size and straight up and down.). Not knowing a lot about boxwoods I decided to turn it into a cascade mame. I soon realized that it doesn't bend easily, but over the course of several months it stayed bent and has recently grown below the bottom of the pot to go from semi-cascade to cascade. I still have some wire on it and intend to extend it further. The tree is just over 4 inches tall from the edge of the pot but once I trim the runners at the top it will be just under 4 inches. Now I'm not recommending that's what you do, but just showing it is possible. I'll eventually clean it up a bit but for now just letting it grow (there's actually a little bit of nebari under those weeds).
 

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About a few years back I, too, bought a cheap ($5.00) boxwood only from Walmart. In the pot was a second tree almost exactly like yours (same size and straight up and down.). Not knowing a lot about boxwoods I decided to turn it into a cascade mame. I soon realized that it doesn't bend easily, but over the course of several months it stayed bent and has recently grown below the bottom of the pot to go from semi-cascade to cascade. I still have some wire on it and intend to extend it further. The tree is just over 4 inches tall from the edge of the pot but once I trim the runners at the top it will be just under 4 inches. Now I'm not recommending that's what you do, but just showing it is possible. I'll eventually clean it up a bit but for now just letting it grow (there's actually a little bit of nebari under those weeds).
I do have 2 more trees from the same nursery pot that I was able to separate, one of which would fit that style a bit better than the tree I've posted here. Good idea on cascade, I might just try it with the other tree :)
 
Natures Way
Kifu Bonsai
Chase Rosade
All near or in Eastern PA
Bob(Kifu Bonsai) is president of the PA Bonsai Society and I think Keystone Bonsai Society.
There is also Lehigh Valley Bonsai Society.
They’re all linked by Chase as he taught both Natures Way(Jim) and Kifu originally(Bob).
Chase and Bob are tying to get more people our age to join and be active in the clubs in our area. Just take the leap, join clubs and even visiting those nurseries can expose you to a lot of knowledge and material. I took it above just joining a club but everyone has their own commitments esp at our age.
 
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I wish I was fortunate to live close to a Bonsai club. The closest club is 4.5 hours away. So if I were to attend meetings and gatherings It would require renting a hotel and finding dog sitters and using vacation time at work😭 Like others have said, take advantage of the resources you have available. People love helping others just getting into their hobby. I'm traditional and digital artist, and I'm always looking to help and encourage kids that show an interest in drawing. When they demonstrate that they're taking my advice and lessons seriously, I'll gift them better art materials to encourage their creative growth. I imagine Bonsai club members are similar. They won't immediately give or sell you great material for cheap to encourage your passion, but when you demonstrate that you're taking their advice and lessons seriously, they probably will.
 
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