Boxwood Shohin?

[QuantumSparky]

I'm just playing around with the idea of trying to branch out (no pun intended) to other forms, mainly shohin. At this point, it's just a curiosity and I really don't know anything specific about achieving such an end product.
What I do have though, are 3 small-ish boxwood trees from a clump that I saw at Home Depot, just itching to be separated and planted individually. Three trees for the price of one, not bad I'd say!
After seeing their roots and potting each of them up, I had the idea to start training this one while I let the others grow out in proper pots.

It was a cheapo Boxwood so I understand it's not much to look at but it actually has some really neat nebari which I just realized appears to be covered in this photo
Can anyone comment on the potential, or lack thereof, that this tree has? I'm not familiar enough with shohin to know if thin or thick trunks are "in style". My plan as of now, is to try to build ramification in the branches and style it to resemble a juvenile tree, and to sell the look, I'd make and install a small scale replica of those wooden posts and wire that people use to train landscape trees.
Can someone let me know if this is a completely dumb idea? I know the general goal is to create a style that resembles a mature tree found in nature but for some reason, I just really like how cute this tree would be if it were styled differently. In my eyes, if this 7-inch shohin can look like a 12-foot landscape tree, that still counts as a valid styling.

 

[bwaynef]

As to whether or not it's a "completely dumb idea," we'd have to see the end result. Based on what I see here, and what you've admitted to not knowing, and the fact that this isn't material I would've started with, I tend to think its likely not going to be believable inside of a decade. And that's if you completely change how you're growing it.

I'd recommend you stop purchasing trees simply because they're not expensive (this one & the DAS stand out in recent memory ...and I haven't been poring over your posts or bN in general lately) and see about getting to a place that has quality material. I don't know much about the layout of PA but I'm pretty sure Superfly and Jim Doyle @ Natures Way have tons of material somewhere in PA. I'd also reach out to John Bierley for some of his field-grown material. (He's on FB, that's about all I know, other than the fact that he posts nice material.)

I doubt its what you want to hear, but its good advice ...even if I'm the one giving it.

 

[sorce]

I think though boxwood makes a good shohin, starting thin isn't a good project.

I don't necessarily believe they "grow slow", they are just abundant for faster projects, from gardens, hedges, or nurseries.

I have a thing that goes....they say "you can't speed up the process", but you can do everything possible to remove everything that makes it take longer.

Boxwood is one that, "starting with good material", removes valuable time too easily to not invest in a deeper search for faster material.

Sorce

 

[Katie0317]

Hi there,

I'm new to bonsai too. I don't know anything about boxwoods but I'm a beginner too, so just sharing my limited experience and thoughts. Rather than spending a few dollars on some stragglers I bought a few pre-bonsai at a quality bonsai nursery. I'm lucky to have one that's not terribly far but you can buy some some for incredibly reasonable prices at Wigert's and they ship.

I paid 39.00, 49.00 and 59.00 for mine but they'd been growing for quite a while and are more than ready to be potted. I'm intimidated by the Jasmine Water plant I got. It has a nice trunk on it and I've seen them for sale with trunks like that for 4 times the price online. Mine is ready to be trimmed and wired and I cut a huge branch off the top because it was so tall and am rooting it. Sometimes you get what you pay for and more.

My husband and I were at a nursery looking for a specific tree and I noticed a fukien tea bonsai. They were 30.00 in a bonsai pot. I went back again and the fukien tea were gone but he had miniature jade with exceptionally small leaves for 35.00. The tree was crazy tall and enough for several trees. I don't even really like jade but I wanted to make a shohin for indoors. I had a perfect shohin bonsai pot waiting that I'd also come upon by accident.

He said he'd bring more bonsai from home next weekend and we're looking forward to it. He's the kind of person who talks and talks and talks but I think he might be lonely. I think his prices are too low but he's a nice person and we'll find a way to make it up to him. He has bigger specimens and we'll buy something nicer from him.

It looks you may be newly married too, congrats if you are! Saving money's important but sometimes you're actually spending more if you're trying to get a bargain every time...It may not be a bargain. I've heard nothing but excellent things about Wigert's and was considering ordering from them myself.

Maybe your boxwood didn't work out this time but with time you'll be able to recognize the bargains you find at HD or your local nursery with more experience.

Keep going to nursery's and you'll come across someone who grows bonsai and sells them on the side and get a bargain. The man we met actually knows his stuff. My husband just doesn't have the time or inclination to listen. He had strong opinions about akadama! Wish I hadn't asked...

I'm wishing you good luck with your plants. As beginners we can't know what those more experienced than us know! They can dig something half dead up and turn it into something wonderful. Maybe one day I'll grow something I'm proud of but I'm willing to take it step by step. I don't expect to turn a nursery plant into a bonsai at this point. Those more experienced make it look easy but I know it's not. I smile when people see my roses and say, "I'm going to do that."

Best to you...Katie

 

[QuantumSparky]

As to whether or not it's a "completely dumb idea," we'd have to see the end result. Based on what I see here, and what you've admitted to not knowing, and the fact that this isn't material I would've started with, I tend to think its likely not going to be believable inside of a decade. And that's if you completely change how you're growing it.

I'd recommend you stop purchasing trees simply because they're not expensive (this one & the DAS stand out in recent memory ...and I haven't been poring over your posts or bN in general lately) and see about getting to a place that has quality material. I don't know much about the layout of PA but I'm pretty sure Superfly and Jim Doyle @ Natures Way have tons of material somewhere in PA. I'd also reach out to John Bierley for some of his field-grown material. (He's on FB, that's about all I know, other than the fact that he posts nice material.)

I doubt its what you want to hear, but its good advice ...even if I'm the one giving it.

I recognize good advice when I see it I do agree with you on your point of 'cheap VS good' but from the nurseries I've been visiting (I'm trying to visit a new one every week or so), the only options seem to be 1) cheap and unsuitable or 2) expensive and slightly more suitable.

The only reason I've been toying around with "bad bonsai material" is because anything I actually want to buy is upwards of $120 (even that price will only get me a thick Japanese maple with mediocre nebari) and I can't currently justify that while I'm dealing with trying to buy a house, car payments, etc.

And big agree on that DAS, I don't regret buying it but I do regret coming across as a moron for buying it xD I knew what I was getting into but it keeps me busy until I can find a nursery that has nice trees - at which point I'll stop buying crappy material and start investing in a small number of promising trees

 

[QuantumSparky]

I think though boxwood makes a good shohin, starting thin isn't a good project.

I don't necessarily believe they "grow slow", they are just abundant for faster projects, from gardens, hedges, or nurseries.

I have a thing that goes....they say "you can't speed up the process", but you can do everything possible to remove everything that makes it take longer.

Boxwood is one that, "starting with good material", removes valuable time too easily to not invest in a deeper search for faster material.

Sorce

I think the reason I like the idea of doing this tree is that I don't really care about the trunk thickness. I know boxwoods aren't going to thicken up overnight and I have my eye on a nice 15-year old shrub with a single trunk and really nice roots, I just have to pull the trigger. But for this one, I'm mainly just hoping to get some more ramification and get it into a smaller pot. I'm at the stage where anything that even slightly resembles bonsai is a win for me. I took the Empire Bonsai online course from Bjorn and have been learning a lot from this forum, but since the hobby requires so much patience I think dumb projects like this will ease my mind until I get used to waiting for results.

 

[QuantumSparky]

Hi there,

I'm new to bonsai too. I don't know anything about boxwoods but I'm a beginner too, so just sharing my limited experience and thoughts. Rather than spending a few dollars on some stragglers I bought a few pre-bonsai at a quality bonsai nursery. I'm lucky to have one that's not terribly far but you can buy some some for incredibly reasonable prices at Wigert's and they ship.

I paid 39.00, 49.00 and 59.00 for mine but they'd been growing for quite a while and are more than ready to be potted. I'm intimidated by the Jasmine Water plant I got. It has a nice trunk on it and I've seen them for sale with trunks like that for 4 times the price online. Mine is ready to be trimmed and wired and I cut a huge branch off the top because it was so tall and am rooting it. Sometimes you get what you pay for and more.

My husband and I were at a nursery looking for a specific tree and I noticed a fukien tea bonsai. They were 30.00 in a bonsai pot. I went back again and the fukien tea were gone but he had miniature jade with exceptionally small leaves for 35.00. The tree was crazy tall and enough for several trees. I don't even really like jade but I wanted to make a shohin for indoors. I had a perfect shohin bonsai pot waiting that I'd also come upon by accident.

He said he'd bring more bonsai from home next weekend and we're looking forward to it. He's the kind of person who talks and talks and talks but I think he might be lonely. I think his prices are too low but he's a nice person and we'll find a way to make it up to him. He has bigger specimens and we'll buy something nicer from him.

It looks you may be newly married too, congrats if you are! Saving money's important but sometimes you're actually spending more if you're trying to get a bargain every time...It may not be a bargain. I've heard nothing but excellent things about Wigert's and was considering ordering from them myself.

Maybe your boxwood didn't work out this time but with time you'll be able to recognize the bargains you find at HD or your local nursery with more experience.

Keep going to nursery's and you'll come across someone who grows bonsai and sells them on the side and get a bargain. The man we met actually knows his stuff. My husband just doesn't have the time or inclination to listen. He had strong opinions about akadama! Wish I hadn't asked...

I'm wishing you good luck with your plants. As beginners we can't know what those more experienced than us know! They can dig something half dead up and turn it into something wonderful. Maybe one day I'll grow something I'm proud of but I'm willing to take it step by step. I don't expect to turn a nursery plant into a bonsai at this point. Those more experienced make it look easy but I know it's not. I smile when people see my roses and say, "I'm going to do that."

Best to you...Katie

Great advice! I hear you about the many cheap trees VS the few proper ones, I just have to find a good nursery that actually offers nice specimens As for pre-bonsai, I may be thinking irrationally but for some reason I can't bring myself to buy trees that are already partially trained for bonsai. It feels like babysitting to me, if I were to just care for a tree that somebody else shaped. I'm much more excited by the idea of taking a tree or shrub and shaping it myself from scratch. I'd never be happy taking credit for an end product that started from pre-bonsai because it would probably have been only a matter of pruning some leaves and keeping it alive. I don't personally find pride in that - not to bash the practice for others, I just wouldn't be personally fulfilled by approaching any hobby like that :/

 

[Pitoon]

@QuantumSparky you might find it easier and quicker to start with a larger tree and then reduce to shohin size verse trying to grow out from scratch.

 

[Marlborough Handcraft]

@QuantumSparky I'm not sure what part of Eastern PA you are in, but there is Kifu Bonsai, which is in East Greenville PA as well as Bucks County Bonsai in Perkasie PA. Both have decent starter material. Hope that helps.

 

[Shogun610]

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I think you need to stop just getting sticks like this because they are cheap. For good Bonsai or Yamadori / Pre Bonsai, Natures Way and Kifu bonsai are you best bet. There are sellers on Fbook too. Get creative , I know the appeal of Home Depot is fun for the price but there are tons of actual good plant nurseries native or not that have better material to work and look for , you just have to get creative. Learning how to properly air layer is probably your best too for deciduous nursery material. Conifer material is good from obviously a dedicated Bonsai studio , but also some nurseries have good stuff too.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@QuantumSparky - I'm going to try and help by going over some "guides", for styling bonsai.

The idea of bonsai is to get an emotional reaction from the image created that brings to mind something to do with trees. Some go for a more literal tree in miniature, some go more abstract. Bonsai really is an abstract representation of a tree.

Tree-ness: The big difference between a the impression of a tree versus a shrub is having a single trunk, and the trunk should have the visual impression of "thickness" or "caliper". In order to look like a tree the general guide is the diameter of the trunk is at least 10% the total height of the tree. So if the tree is 12 inches tall, the diameter of the trunk should be at least 1.2 inches, or 1.25 inches. Less than that diameter the visual impact will tend more toward "shrub" versus "tree". There is no upper limit on the trunk diameter. Generally trees less than 12 inches tall the practical upper limit is around 25% or 4 inches diameter. There are extreme "sumo" styles where the diameter of the trunk can equal the height of the entire tree. The extreme styles are more difficult to execute.

Bonsai trees have a tendency to be developed in thirds. The first third is the trunk. The second third is major branching and the final third tends to be twigs and leaves or needles. This is not an absolute rule, just a guide, artistic sensibilities always trump these guides.

To help with your nursery browsing. Bonsai from nursery material are usually brought down to bonsai size. If you want a tree that is 12 inches tall with a 3 or 4 inch diameter trunk, you need to shop trees at the nursery that already have 3 to 4 inch diameter trunks. These are usually found in the area with trees that are 10 to 15 feet tall. Yes, you take a 10 or 15 feet tall tree, and do a "trunk chop" to bring it down to maybe 6 inches tall. Cut to 6 inches most deciduous trees will back bud below the cut, allowing a choice of branches, one to become the next trunk segment and others to become side branches. This works well with deciduous trees. Conifers are more tricky because most conifers will not back bud if cut low to leafless stumps. With conifers you need low branches with enough foliage to support the roots when you chop the 10 foot tall pine or spruce down to 6 inches or so. No low branches, no low chopping possible.

But deciduous like maples, elms, hornbeam, serviceberry (Amelanchier) and a fair number of other trees will follow the above pattern.

Grafted trees. Generally for bonsai avoid grafted trees until you understand the ins and outs of grafting. There is nothing wrong with a well done graft of say a Japanese white pine, grafted onto a Japanese black pine root stock. On the other hand grafted Japanese maples can be very difficult to make into "good" bonsai because the graft union seldom heals well. Chopping trunks as advised above will often be below the graft union, which means the understock is what will sprout, not the named grafted cultivar. Often there is an upcharge for named cultivars, chopping means your throwing money away.

So only purchase trees that are not grafted. The normal species forms of trees generally work best, unless you know the tree was propagated by cuttings, rather than grafting. Junipers, boxwood, Hinoki (Chamaecyparis) and Thuja (American white cedar) are usually propagated by cuttings, so named varieties are okay for bonsai. Many shrubs are by cuttings. Ask at the nursery if you are not certain. They should know which are grafted (often bad), which are from seed (usually good) and which are cutting grown (usually good).

About your boxwood.
Nothing wrong with it except for the height of the tree, the trunk is quite slender. Below I have attached my red-headed-step-child of a boxwood. I say that because even though I have owned it for more than 10 years, I still can not settle on a style for it. It has never been styled. The diameter of the trunk is about 2 to 3 inches. the height is about 16 inches tall. This boxwood was collected from a 40 year old hedge. It took this box 40 years to develop the trunk but it was regularly pruned. It is possible to get a similar diameter quicker if you allow the boxwood to grow without pruning.

My suggestion would be to plant your boxwoods in the ground and allow them to grow freely, without pruning or other bonsai techniques until they have thicker diameter trunks. Or especially the 2 smaller ones you did not picture. Boxwood should be winter hardy in your area. They can be planted in the ground and forgotten about for a number of years, no problem. The one that is in the pot, if you really want to work with it where it is, let it grow taller. In terms of building a tree in proportions of thirds, your tree has a branch free trunk for about half its height. Let the tree get taller so that the first branch starts at about a third of the total height. That will give a better sense of proportion. Growing in a pot does slow growth. But you need to experience this "slowing of growth" for yourself. Put the 2 in the ground, let them run wild. Every year compare this one in a pot with the ones in the ground. The groundlings will catch up and pass up the one in the pot in a few years.

So I hope this helps. Do try to visit the bonsai nurseries in Pennsylvania, I highly recommend Natures Way, owned by Jim Doyle. Jim occasionally travels to Milwaukee to teach and demo, so I have met him and think highly of his skills. When you shop in landscape nurseries, don't look at height of trees, look at diameters of trunks. When you buy larger material to reduce down to bonsai size you will see much better results.

 

[Shogun610]

Yes ^ great advice. Never use anything grafted from regular nursery unless you can air layer ….

 

[Wulfskaar]

Well I happen to like your little boxwood. I think it will be small for a long time, so I think Leo's advice is good. Since they are super cheap, you can put a few in the ground for future bonsai adventures, while still getting to mess around with some potted ones. I have two that are small but I think are cool looking.

 

[0soyoung]

Can anyone comment on the potential, or lack thereof, that this tree has? I'm not familiar enough with shohin to know if thin or thick trunks are "in style"

I cannot really judge how small this tree is, but it is way, way, way overpotted.

To be a legit shohin (generally under 25 cm), that trunk needs about 5 years of thickening, if not more. On the other hand, it appears to me that it would make a legit minibonsai (generally under 10 cm), were it in a far smaller pot (2 inches +-). You could do all those things you have in mind and quite possibly make a great little minibonsai of it, IMHO.

That is what I would do. I have lots of fun with minis. Maybe if you branch out even further and you will too.

 

[Katie0317]

Great advice! I hear you about the many cheap trees VS the few proper ones, I just have to find a good nursery that actually offers nice specimens As for pre-bonsai, I may be thinking irrationally but for some reason I can't bring myself to buy trees that are already partially trained for bonsai. It feels like babysitting to me, if I were to just care for a tree that somebody else shaped. I'm much more excited by the idea of taking a tree or shrub and shaping it myself from scratch. I'd never be happy taking credit for an end product that started from pre-bonsai because it would probably have been only a matter of pruning some leaves and keeping it alive. I don't personally find pride in that - not to bash the practice for others, I just wouldn't be personally fulfilled by approaching any hobby like that :/

I think you're confused about what a pre-bonsai is! They haven't been shaped at all, not one iota. They're simply trees that are appropriate for bonsai and have been allowed to grow for a few years in a nursery pot. I've never seen a pre-bonsai plant that's been shaped in any way! They're growing kind of wild and have never even been trimmed, much less pruned or shaped! Am not sure where you got that idea. They're basically nursery plants that are appropriate for bonsai and grown for the purpose of becoming a bonsai. They're been fertilized and watered...nothing else.

Unless you're going to grow exclusively from seed or go into Yamidori, it's either pre-bonsai or buying a bonsai plant. Look at pre-bonsai plants and you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

[Maico]

And big agree on that DAS, I don't regret buying it but I do regret coming across as a moron for buying it xD I knew what I was getting into but it keeps me busy until I can find a nursery that has nice trees - at which point I'll stop buying crappy material and start investing in a small number of promising trees

Join the club. I’ve only been attempting bonsai for three months or so and a DAS was one of my first purchases. It looked totally bonsai ready. And I also have the multiple boxwood in one pot which I separated. It totally makes sense. But after reading the posts from the experts on this site I’m gonna follow what they say. I’ll learn from their mistakes and reap the benefits. I’m still gonna keep the little boxwoods and the DAS , maybe one day I can turn them into something.

 

[QuantumSparky]

I cannot really judge how small this tree is, but it is way, way, way overpotted.

To be a legit shohin (generally under 25 cm), that trunk needs about 5 years of thickening, if not more. On the other hand, it appears to me that it would make a legit minibonsai (generally under 10 cm), were it in a far smaller pot (2 inches +-). You could do all those things you have in mind and quite possibly make a great little minibonsai of it, IMHO.

That is what I would do. I have lots of fun with minis. Maybe if you branch out even further and you will too.

Yea I know it's way over potted, but this was the only pot I had left I've ordered lots of smaller flats that I'll put this into once it regains health.

 

[QuantumSparky]

I think you're confused about what a pre-bonsai is! They haven't been shaped at all, not one iota. They're simply trees that are appropriate for bonsai and have been allowed to grow for a few years in a nursery pot. I've never seen a pre-bonsai plant that's been shaped in any way! They're growing kind of wild and have never even been trimmed, much less pruned or shaped! Am not sure where you got that idea. They're basically nursery plants that are appropriate for bonsai and grown for the purpose of becoming a bonsai. They're been fertilized and watered...nothing else.

Unless you're going to grow exclusively from seed or go into Yamidori, it's either pre-bonsai or buying a bonsai plant. Look at pre-bonsai plants and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'm not sure where I picked up that definition of pre-bonsai to be honest I think I had seen a few YouTube videos of "how to take care of nursery pre-bonsai" and the starting material was already in a bonsai pot with obvious shaping already done to it. I guess I heard enough YouTubers call box store bonsai as "pre-bonsai" that it stuck in my mind that way haha. Glad to know I was wrong! In that case your previous advice makes a lot more sense

 

[QuantumSparky]

@QuantumSparky - I'm going to try and help by going over some "guides", for styling bonsai.

The idea of bonsai is to get an emotional reaction from the image created that brings to mind something to do with trees. Some go for a more literal tree in miniature, some go more abstract. Bonsai really is an abstract representation of a tree.

Tree-ness: The big difference between a the impression of a tree versus a shrub is having a single trunk, and the trunk should have the visual impression of "thickness" or "caliper". In order to look like a tree the general guide is the diameter of the trunk is at least 10% the total height of the tree. So if the tree is 12 inches tall, the diameter of the trunk should be at least 1.2 inches, or 1.25 inches. Less than that diameter the visual impact will tend more toward "shrub" versus "tree". There is no upper limit on the trunk diameter. Generally trees less than 12 inches tall the practical upper limit is around 25% or 4 inches diameter. There are extreme "sumo" styles where the diameter of the trunk can equal the height of the entire tree. The extreme styles are more difficult to execute.

Bonsai trees have a tendency to be developed in thirds. The first third is the trunk. The second third is major branching and the final third tends to be twigs and leaves or needles. This is not an absolute rule, just a guide, artistic sensibilities always trump these guides.

To help with your nursery browsing. Bonsai from nursery material are usually brought down to bonsai size. If you want a tree that is 12 inches tall with a 3 or 4 inch diameter trunk, you need to shop trees at the nursery that already have 3 to 4 inch diameter trunks. These are usually found in the area with trees that are 10 to 15 feet tall. Yes, you take a 10 or 15 feet tall tree, and do a "trunk chop" to bring it down to maybe 6 inches tall. Cut to 6 inches most deciduous trees will back bud below the cut, allowing a choice of branches, one to become the next trunk segment and others to become side branches. This works well with deciduous trees. Conifers are more tricky because most conifers will not back bud if cut low to leafless stumps. With conifers you need low branches with enough foliage to support the roots when you chop the 10 foot tall pine or spruce down to 6 inches or so. No low branches, no low chopping possible.

But deciduous like maples, elms, hornbeam, serviceberry (Amelanchier) and a fair number of other trees will follow the above pattern.

Grafted trees. Generally for bonsai avoid grafted trees until you understand the ins and outs of grafting. There is nothing wrong with a well done graft of say a Japanese white pine, grafted onto a Japanese black pine root stock. On the other hand grafted Japanese maples can be very difficult to make into "good" bonsai because the graft union seldom heals well. Chopping trunks as advised above will often be below the graft union, which means the understock is what will sprout, not the named grafted cultivar. Often there is an upcharge for named cultivars, chopping means your throwing money away.

So only purchase trees that are not grafted. The normal species forms of trees generally work best, unless you know the tree was propagated by cuttings, rather than grafting. Junipers, boxwood, Hinoki (Chamaecyparis) and Thuja (American white cedar) are usually propagated by cuttings, so named varieties are okay for bonsai. Many shrubs are by cuttings. Ask at the nursery if you are not certain. They should know which are grafted (often bad), which are from seed (usually good) and which are cutting grown (usually good).

About your boxwood.
Nothing wrong with it except for the height of the tree, the trunk is quite slender. Below I have attached my red-headed-step-child of a boxwood. I say that because even though I have owned it for more than 10 years, I still can not settle on a style for it. It has never been styled. The diameter of the trunk is about 2 to 3 inches. the height is about 16 inches tall. This boxwood was collected from a 40 year old hedge. It took this box 40 years to develop the trunk but it was regularly pruned. It is possible to get a similar diameter quicker if you allow the boxwood to grow without pruning.

My suggestion would be to plant your boxwoods in the ground and allow them to grow freely, without pruning or other bonsai techniques until they have thicker diameter trunks. Or especially the 2 smaller ones you did not picture. Boxwood should be winter hardy in your area. They can be planted in the ground and forgotten about for a number of years, no problem. The one that is in the pot, if you really want to work with it where it is, let it grow taller. In terms of building a tree in proportions of thirds, your tree has a branch free trunk for about half its height. Let the tree get taller so that the first branch starts at about a third of the total height. That will give a better sense of proportion. Growing in a pot does slow growth. But you need to experience this "slowing of growth" for yourself. Put the 2 in the ground, let them run wild. Every year compare this one in a pot with the ones in the ground. The groundlings will catch up and pass up the one in the pot in a few years.

So I hope this helps. Do try to visit the bonsai nurseries in Pennsylvania, I highly recommend Natures Way, owned by Jim Doyle. Jim occasionally travels to Milwaukee to teach and demo, so I have met him and think highly of his skills. When you shop in landscape nurseries, don't look at height of trees, look at diameters of trunks. When you buy larger material to reduce down to bonsai size you will see much better results.

View attachment 393448

I feel like I owe you commission after reading all that great advice I'll definitely do that "Two in the ground, one in the pot" experiment to get a feel for how these things grow with respect to their (lack of) container. I'll also try to grow out the potted boxwood and apply that rule of thirds you mentioned. I bet @Deep Sea Diver can vouch for the importance of things called "the rule of thirds" in diving and otherwise

 

[Katie0317]

I'm not sure where I picked up that definition of pre-bonsai to be honest I think I had seen a few YouTube videos of "how to take care of nursery pre-bonsai" and the starting material was already in a bonsai pot with obvious shaping already done to it. I guess I heard enough YouTubers call box store bonsai as "pre-bonsai" that it stuck in my mind that way haha. Glad to know I was wrong! In that case your previous advice makes a lot more sense

These are pre-bonsai plants from Wigert's. You can check this site and see they have an excellent reputation.

I bet if you were to add up the bits and pieces of money you've spent on unsuitable material for bonsai you could have gotten at least two plants that are ready to be potted from Wigert's. Many of their pre-bonsai plants are 25.00. The link I'm sending is for their pre-bonsai plants only.

You've been watching the wrong videos if they haven't taught the difference between a pre-bonsai plant and something you'd find in a nursery or elsewhere. These plants are grown with the intent that they can be sold to someone with the knowledge to turn them into a bonsai tree with the proper care. They're simply plants right now with tremendous potential. It's up to you what you do with it. I can only say 'quit spending your money and gas money going to nurseries that have nothing to do with bonsai.' You don't have the knowledge or experience to work with a regular nursery plant. That may sound harsh but I think it's true. Someone with more experience can speak to that but in time you might. There's only so many hours in the day and spending that time on something that will never pan out is not productive. I wish you great success with bonsai. Start here and see what you think.

Pre-Bonsai Trees – Page 2 – Wigert’s Bonsai