Boxwood For Real.

[rockm]

@rockm Okay I read that article about Kingsville and I have made contact with the guy who wrote it. Apparently, he is the International Registration Authority for Buxus. I am going to try to open a dialogue with him so I can learn some stuff. I'm pretty excited as I love the nomenclature part.

good luck. This ground was covered a very long time ago when the IBC was the happening place online for bonsai. If you do a search over there you might come up with some interesting stuff.

 

[sorce]

Tells....

I think many are seasonal, this winter to spring being the best time to identify them apart from each other..

Where throughout the summer, there are less Obvious Visual cues, and some, like Sempervirens? And Sempervirens Suffruticosa, look the same in summer.

But buds on , Suffruticosa, specifically from barked wood, mostly the trunk, are very much more (×) philliphs screwdriver shaped.

Than Regular Sempervirens Which is more round...

The difference in green branch buds seems not so great, if just a bit more pointed on Suffroticosa.

New growth undertones in this transition period seem to be different too..some more red, some more yellow.

For when leaf shape is not enough.

And the bark....I honestly can see that kinda bark being maintained on a few...gonna be a tougher tell IMO...

Flowers? Maybe ..

Love box.

Sorce

 

[Carol 83]

Love box.

What say you @M. Frary ?

 

[M. Frary]

I

What say you @M. Frary ?

I do my best thinking inside the box.
People say to think outside the box.
I think they're just people who don't have a box at their disposal.

 

[Carol 83]

I
I do my best thinking inside the box.
People say to think outside the box.
I think they're just people who don't have a box at their disposal.

I knew you wouldn't disappoint.

 

[M. Frary]

I knew you wouldn't disappoint.

That's what she said!

 

[Carol 83]

That's what she said!

I handed that to you.

 

[M. Frary]

I handed that to you.

That's also what she said.

 

[Carol 83]

I handed that to you.

@M. Frary That's what he said, and she said "Ehh, no thanks"

 

[sorce]

Thisn too @TheWolski ...

 

[sorce]

The boxwood I've worked were chosen carefully

In talking about primers and Box this morning....
And because I was thinking about this...
"Want to become bonsai" the other day....

I guess it's worth/mandatory to mention this....which I found as quoted!

Exactly that!....chosen very carefully.

It is true that at one standard(non-flagship location) Home Depot..Lowe's etc....
You can only find one good trunk out of 30-50...
AND THAT GOOD TRUNK IS ALWAYS THERE..(unless its not)...

Yet people still grab stuff with VERY DIFFICULT if any, potential.

The Morris Midget, Kingsville...blah blah...
Scene is even worse....

Because these are very foolishly coveted and One of as many as 100 I've seen was any good. And it wasn't for sale.

Never saw one worth purchasing.

At least not over the possibility of finding a good yard grown regular one free, or a decent nursery one.

Ranting on too much coffee!

Sorce

 

[rockm]

In talking about primers and Box this morning....
And because I was thinking about this...
"Want to become bonsai" the other day....

I guess it's worth/mandatory to mention this....which I found as quoted!

Exactly that!....chosen very carefully.

It is true that at one standard(non-flagship location) Home Depot..Lowe's etc....
You can only find one good trunk out of 30-50...
AND THAT GOOD TRUNK IS ALWAYS THERE..(unless its not)...

Yet people still grab stuff with VERY DIFFICULT if any, potential.

The Morris Midget, Kingsville...blah blah...
Scene is even worse....

Because these are very foolishly coveted and One of as many as 100 I've seen was any good. And it wasn't for sale.

Never saw one worth purchasing.

At least not over the possibility of finding a good yard grown regular one free, or a decent nursery one.

Ranting on too much coffee!

Sorce

The best material isn't in nurseries (unless its an old one). Small boxwood don't become large boxwood very quickly or at all if kept in a bonsai container. Best trunks are on landscape plants. Some are spectacular-the older the neighborhood, the better the boxwood--in most cases. However, some big or even huge landscape boxwood have the exact same issues that the tiny ones at home depot do. That is long uninteresting trunks with no low foliage. Topping those trunks and hoping for backbudding to create branches is even harder on larger material, as it take a very long time to build believable branches on a four inch diameter trunk.

That said, tiny leaved Kingsville and other cultivars with excellent potential are out there--they're just not common. I am fortunate in that I am very close to Kingsville's origin nursery. Occasionally, I have run across vendors around here that have been growing them in ground for 40 years and are selling them off. This is one was one of those. Got it at the PBA show and sale eight or nine years ago. It was a formless blob/mound of tight leaves in a nursery pot. Most who are unfamiliar with what it was wouldn't have given it a second glance. I picked it up and looked UP into the foliage from below. Saw it had excellent interior branches that showed age. It was only a matter then of pruning out the stuff that wasn't necessary.

Looking up into a tree that is mostly covered in a thicket of foliage is a very good way to evaluate it.

 

[John in Toledo]

Good stuff. Staring at the empty spaces in the canopies of the ones that I am learning to grow and visualizing the ramification is a challenge. Lots of clip-and-grow/proper-nexts, I'd imagine, are in store for mine. Your example tree is fun to look at. Nice job. A real dream-tree for a newbie like me.

Seems that there is no short-cut to putting age on branches.

Since I'll be doing just that with my TiNaC Tree, I wonder: what are any guidelines for trimming/pruning that will be useful for my tree during next year's plans. Got tips that'll help me work early branch development?

 

[rockm]

The best material isn't in nurseries (unless its an old one). Small boxwood don't become large boxwood very quickly or at all if kept in a bonsai container. Best trunks are on landscape plants. Some are spectacular-the older the neighborhood, the better the boxwood--in most cases. However, some big or even huge landscape boxwood have the exact same issues that the tiny ones at home depot do. That is long uninteresting trunks with no low foliage. Topping those trunks and hoping for backbudding to create branches is even harder on larger material, as it take a very long time to build believable branches on a four inch diameter trunk.

That said, tiny leaved Kingsville and other cultivars with excellent potential are out there--they're just not common. I am fortunate in that I am very close to Kingsville's origin nursery. Occasionally, I have run across vendors around here that have been growing them in ground for 40 years and are selling them off. This is one was one of those. Got it at the PBA show and sale eight or nine years ago. It was a formless blob/mound of tight leaves in a nursery pot. Most who are unfamiliar with what it was wouldn't have given it a second glance. I picked it up and looked UP into the foliage from below. Saw it had excellent interior branches that showed age. It was only a matter then of pruning out the stuff that wasn't necessary.

Looking up into a tree that is mostly covered in a thicket of foliage is a very good way to evaluate it.

View attachment 190345

better pic of interior branching

 

[sorce]

Got tips that'll help me work early branch development?

Tips! Growing tip on the end...let em run.

But practice PPB on what you will keep.

The three predetermined silhouttes makes me wonder how long it can run befor einterior abandonment.

Sotce

 

[rockm]

Good stuff. Staring at the empty spaces in the canopies of the ones that I am learning to grow and visualizing the ramification is a challenge. Lots of clip-and-grow/proper-nexts, I'd imagine, are in store for mine. Your example tree is fun to look at. Nice job. A real dream-tree for a newbie like me.

Seems that there is no short-cut to putting age on branches.

Since I'll be doing just that with my TiNaC Tree, I wonder: what are any guidelines for trimming/pruning that will be useful for my tree during next year's plans. Got tips that'll help me work early branch development?

I would not prune anything at this point on your tree. You want it to build up strength and for extension growth that will give you something to work down from. Backbudding on new wood on boxwoods can happen, but you want it on older wood closer to the trunk. That means allowing extension growth to lignify (turn woody) and then hard pruning it. I'd do that for several years.

Ideally, this process could be accelerated if the plant is in the ground. In a pot, things take much longer, especially for slower growing dwarf kinds of boxwood. The one in my picture is over 35 years old...

and FWIW, sometimes when you get what you wish for, it's a pain. As you can see, this tree needs a serious thinning of its foliage. That process can take a couple of days to do right. I have to sort through all those branches and new shoots and reduce as needed. I'd say I have to nip out at least half, probably more, of all that foliage to open the tree up and make it less dense. I do that mostly in late June after the new growth is firm. Standing in the June heat and searching tiny little branches is tedious and ruins your eyesight.

 

[M. Frary]

Kingsville

Had one.
It was awesome.
Way better than any other boxwoods.
If you ever get a chance to look at one in person you will know why.

 

[sorce]

searching tiny little branches is tedious and ruins your eyesight.

Needle Fever!

Drives me Crazy!
Sorxee

 

[John in Toledo]

When you say "That means allowing extension growth to lignify (turn woody) and then hard pruning it. I'd do that for several years", Are you implying the hard prune once each year, and prune back into last year's growth? I purposely left it with a larger profile than I intend to use, just so I could try to generate skinny new shoots on much thicker older wood (branch taper?)

I think I am a little confused on the difference between early main branch formation and finer ramification? I want to be planning for the latter while figuring out the former. I'm trying to learn to see long-term.

Can you share a little about what you're thinking/when you transition to the finer branch work.

@sorce - I'd been planning to grow out most branches to outermost silhouette, then trim to proper nexts near the middle silhouettes.
Have you found that to be useful early on? Are there considerable pros and cons to hedge-type (outer silhouette distance only) in early development?

 

[sorce]

I'd been planning to grow out most branches to outermost silhouette, then trim to proper nexts near the middle silhouettes.
Have you found that to be useful early on? Are there considerable pros and cons to hedge-type (outer silhouette distance only) in early development?

We can't really plan to grow out to these silhouettes...it's more the tree's decision.

So far...knowing these "silhouettes" exist is just information. Not much practice in how to utilize it for detailed grow out.

It CAN be used to fix MINOR problems...

Minor Problems are the only thing fixable on a box.

That Said...choosing material that can be whacked all the way back to a point where you are just growing out branches that will never need to be bigger than about a quarter inch is necessary.

If it IS possible to "grow out" branches bigger than a quarter inch without the rampant growth ruining other sections....I still think it a fools errand. A better/faster box is waiting somewhere.

I am too "preventative" to hedge prune anything....
And Hedge pruning opposite trees...especially box....is not detailed enough, and leaves AND CAUSES potential problems.

On your Tinac tree...so small(near impossibly small) you will need to create branches and pads so tight, you soon won't even be able to get into it to cut branches...
But you can ALWAYS get a straight bud knocking tool in there...

For me..."early development"...means selecting the right 1 tree of a couple hundred...
"Early development" is something the nursery has done.

The trees we select to use should have "good bones" that we can cut back to straight away, and get to building small branching on.

If you have say....a low quarter inch branch...and a high branch that's 5/16th maybe 7/16ths....its possible to flip flop allowing the low to grow and holding back the top....

But any difference greater than that is never likely to be safely (hort and design) flip flopped.

Diminishing branch sizes as going up the tree Is HIGHLY important....it is what caused good taper.. And what will continue to build good taper.
Having this in order in the beginning is important...for trunk selection, and whatever small amounts of trunk development you may be able to achieve.

Bout to go virt newbs box.

Sorce