I have never made this before. I see a number of recipes for it so not sure where to start. I do have pottery clay I can use and also was wondering why can't one use that type or clay that kids use that just dries when left out. Also, if I'm going to put a tree on a rock with a muck wall around it, how high does the wall need to be and how one does put drain holes through the wall, in my case, at the bottom? I can see just poking something through the wall and making a hole or two, but will that stay open of collapse along the way? Help appreciated.
Bonsai muck
- Thread starter August44
- Start date
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
Michael Hagedorn’s recipe for much is in this article.
Also
As far as the rest of your request, I’m a bit confused. The muck is permeable so the drain will be on the lowest point of the pot.
Cheers
DSD sends
Repotting Closeups 2023
A few photos with captions of our repotting adventures in 2023… A partial soil replacement of a hemlock, with the beginning of a muck wall to hold the soil in. The wall was up to the top when finis…
crataegus.com
Also
Cantilevered Vine Maple on a Board—
Here’s a project long in the dreaming—a Vine Maple on a metal / slab support. I’ve enjoyed cantilevered forms for their suggestion of precariousness. Which nature has in abundance. The tree was col…
crataegus.com
As far as the rest of your request, I’m a bit confused. The muck is permeable so the drain will be on the lowest point of the pot.
Cheers
DSD sends
littletreefarmer
Yamadori
Michael's muck is my go-to as well. Haven't had any issues with drainage. On slabs, the water creates its own flow through the muck wall at the lowest point.
Do your research then send it and see what problems arise, and solve those as you see fit. Muck applications are each going to be a unique experience.
Do your research then send it and see what problems arise, and solve those as you see fit. Muck applications are each going to be a unique experience.
RJG2
Omono
@Deep Sea Diver linked Michael Hagedorn's recipe, but there isn't a lot of details in there - take a look here for some discussion (like how to cook the corn starch, and get a good consistency):
If you use his recipe, share your experiences.
If you use his recipe, share your experiences.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
I have not seen this hagedorn mix before but I suspect the sphagnum moss in this recipe is the key. I always use sphagnum in the traditional recipes whenever I make muck.
The traditional recipes produce a clay mix that, if it ever dries out is extremely difficult to re-wet. Sphagnum is like a sponge, even in dry muck. It absorbs water quickly and facilitates getting moisture back into the mix.
As for drainage, I've never had a problem. More often the problem is the mix becoming too dry as most rock absorbs moisture and evaporates it into the surrounding air. Most plantings using muck also have minimum amounts of potting soil so the tree roots are happy to get every ounce of water before it disappears through the day. Daily wet and dry cycles are more than likely which will prevent any root rot problems.
The one rock planting that has survived for me sits in a suiban - a pot with no holes. That small pocket of water is what keeps the trees alive before it dries out each afternoon.
I guess a hardening clay might be OK for a perimeter wall but you'll need to allow for the reduced root volume if the tree's roots cannot grow into it. If using a hardening clay product it might be necessary to allow for drainage.
You may also like to try that corn starch recipe or something similar instead of clay as the binder.
Unless you are using a water resistant, drying material for the wall I don't think drainage is an issue.
The traditional recipes produce a clay mix that, if it ever dries out is extremely difficult to re-wet. Sphagnum is like a sponge, even in dry muck. It absorbs water quickly and facilitates getting moisture back into the mix.
As for drainage, I've never had a problem. More often the problem is the mix becoming too dry as most rock absorbs moisture and evaporates it into the surrounding air. Most plantings using muck also have minimum amounts of potting soil so the tree roots are happy to get every ounce of water before it disappears through the day. Daily wet and dry cycles are more than likely which will prevent any root rot problems.
The one rock planting that has survived for me sits in a suiban - a pot with no holes. That small pocket of water is what keeps the trees alive before it dries out each afternoon.
I'd stick to the pottery clay or even some local native clay soil. We are not aiming for a hard barrier. The clay stays damp and pliable so roots can grow into it if they feel so inclined.
I guess a hardening clay might be OK for a perimeter wall but you'll need to allow for the reduced root volume if the tree's roots cannot grow into it. If using a hardening clay product it might be necessary to allow for drainage.
You may also like to try that corn starch recipe or something similar instead of clay as the binder.
The wall needs to be high enough to contain the soil you intend to put in. That depends on the size of the tree(s) and roots. The wall does not always need to be as tall as the highest part of the soil. It is possible to mound up the soil and hold the mound in place with moss or stone mulch. Try searching for some images of bonsai planted on rock slabs to get some indication on how high the perimeter walls are likely to be (that's the slightly steeper slope around the perimeter) and how much bonsai soil can be mounded up inside such a barrier.
I've seen lots of growers go to a lot of trouble drilling holes through rock slabs but, IMHO, those holes are probably doing next to nothing for drainage. good for tie down points but I suspect that very little water will go through them and, In my experience, not required anyway.
Unless you are using a water resistant, drying material for the wall I don't think drainage is an issue.
