Bonsai forums a bad thing?

[lordy]

I said this on another thread -- I've been on other hobby boards, and the rancor on bonsai boards is among the worst. For what should be a relaxing hobby, it sure attracts a lot of nasty people.

I tend to agree, but still believe that much of the problem is that the tone of voice or unspoken implications is many times misinterpreted. In other words, if you were face to face and said the same thing, the other person(s) might well take it differently, emoticons notwithstanding.

 

[Nybonsai12]

It's funny to hear what people say about this board compared to others. I'm on other forums and this place is by far the most tame. Maybe I'm just desensitized to it all, but bnut is rated G compared to some of the car forums I visit where things frequently get downright vicious.

Lordy makes a good point though. It's hard to interpret the emotions behind text on a screen.

 

[Sterling355]

Yes. All of us in the hobby should practice Buddhism. Throwing religion into this thread will definitely calm it down. Ha ha. I can't stop laughing.

You completely missed the point.

But I thank you for your comment because you helped prove my point as well.


So, thank you.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I said this on another thread -- I've been on other hobby boards, and the rancor on bonsai boards is among the worst. For what should be a relaxing hobby, it sure attracts a lot of nasty people.

There are some people who view bonsai as a competition sport. It is not my thing - but I don't begrudge them enjoying the hobby in that way. They just get frustrated if you won't play their game I don't view them as "nasty", just playing a competitive game of verbal oneupmanship. As people have pointed out, they are probably very nice people if you met them face to face. If you don't like them, put them on ignore

Same thing with scuba diving, mountain biking, running, and every other pastime I enjoy. Some people do it for the competition. I do it for the pleasure and the peace of spirit. My competition is on the inside Maybe it is the sign of a huge ego I don't care about your opinion until you demonstrate why I SHOULD care

 

[Vance Wood]

All else aside the Human being is a competitive animal. As much as there are those out there who despise competition with that winners and losers mentality the fact remains. Without winners and losers you would only have the dead and the almost dead till at some point someone decides they want to live even if it is at someone's expense.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

There are some people who view bonsai as a competition sport. It is not my thing - but I don't begrudge them enjoying the hobby in that way. They just get frustrated if you won't play their game I don't view them as "nasty", just playing a competitive game of verbal oneupmanship. As people have pointed out, they are probably very nice people if you met them face to face. If you don't like them, put them on ignore

Same thing with scuba diving, mountain biking, running, and every other pastime I enjoy. Some people do it for the competition. I do it for the pleasure and the peace of spirit. My competition is on the inside Maybe it is the sign of a huge ego I don't care about your opinion until you demonstrate why I SHOULD care

I'm glad you are not like those people. I don't hate 'em, but I do avoid their threads or responding to them. It's not that I am "Holier than thou", but rather I try to not let others bring out the worst in me.

And I don't think that having competition against oneself is a necessarily a sign of a huge ego, instead it could be a sign of humility.

 

[mcpesq817]

There are some people who view bonsai as a competition sport. It is not my thing - but I don't begrudge them enjoying the hobby in that way. They just get frustrated if you won't play their game I don't view them as "nasty", just playing a competitive game of verbal oneupmanship. As people have pointed out, they are probably very nice people if you met them face to face. If you don't like them, put them on ignore

Same thing with scuba diving, mountain biking, running, and every other pastime I enjoy. Some people do it for the competition. I do it for the pleasure and the peace of spirit. My competition is on the inside Maybe it is the sign of a huge ego I don't care about your opinion until you demonstrate why I SHOULD care

I was talking to my friend who has been in the hobby for a few decades now, and he agreed that the hobby (forums or not) seems to attract a lot of a-holes. There are a lot of people out there that think they know it all yet their trees are terrible, that refuse to listen to pros that are invited to speak at club meetings, that will have people fully wire a $5 bush with $20 of copper wire, etc. I've seen this not only on the bonsai boards, but also at clubs.

It's crap like this that pushes people away from the clubs and boards. I'd rather just get together with a few close friends that are into the hobby so that I don't have to deal with all the BS and nonsense.

 

[coh]

I tend to agree, but still believe that much of the problem is that the tone of voice or unspoken implications is many times misinterpreted. In other words, if you were face to face and said the same thing, the other person(s) might well take it differently, emoticons notwithstanding.

This kind of stuff goes on to varying degrees on all forums I've been involved with - bonsai, art, sports, health...and I agree that a lot of it is due to the anonymity (or semi-anonymity) of the internet. Some people write things without considering how they might be taken, but some are intentionally nasty. There can be repercussions...I know of a couple of people who've been stalked by individuals they had run ins with on internet forums, they had to get the police involved in one instance.

Some forums are more heavily moderated and that can keep the lid on. This place is, to my way of thinking, essentially unmoderated and because of that there are more of the obvious outbursts. Other forums, like IBC and bonsai study group, are more heavily moderated and appear calmer on the surface...but stuff still happens. And those forums are much less active than this one. That must be telling us something

Overall, though, I do agree with the person who expressed surprise at the level of nastiness on bonsai forums. It's right up there with the worst I've seen anywhere. I have not seen that in my local club, at least not to this point.

Chris

 

[Sterling355]

I was talking to my friend who has been in the hobby for a few decades now, and he agreed that the hobby (forums or not) seems to attract a lot of a-holes. There are a lot of people out there that think they know it all yet their trees are terrible, that refuse to listen to pros that are invited to speak at club meetings, that will have people fully wire a $5 bush with $20 of copper wire, etc. I've seen this not only on the bonsai boards, but also at clubs.

It's crap like this that pushes people away from the clubs and boards.

I think you nailed it right on the head. I thought these forums would be completely different but I've been seeing the reality of what it really is and certain individuals who lurk here.

Immediately the Dunning-Kruger and Lake Wobegon effect came to mind. It's impossible to miss.

 

[Paradox]

It isnt just bonsai. I dont care what topic you pick but it happens in every board Ive been on. You think it gets bad here? Try a video gaming forum, better yet, a competative video gaming forum. They make this place look like a church social.

Any time you get a group of people together, especially a large group from different places, with various backgrounds you are going to get disagreements. What matters is how we handle ourselves in these situations. That is what separates us from the "animals".

 

[jk_lewis]

I said this on another thread -- I've been on other hobby boards, and the rancor on bonsai boards is among the worst. For what should be a relaxing hobby, it sure attracts a lot of nasty people.

Oh, no. If you really want to find bitchiness, go to any of the grand opera boards.

I love Opera and have been in popera houses around the world, but I won't visit an opera discussion forum -- ever.

 

[Eric Group]

I said this on another thread -- I've been on other hobby boards, and the rancor on bonsai boards is among the worst. For what should be a relaxing hobby, it sure attracts a lot of nasty people.

What kinds of hobbies? Sweater knitting? I don't think any of the people who feel this board is out of hand have ever visited a popular Internet discussion forum before. The Internet turns people into something different. People are more willing to go a lot farther with an insult than they would in person, across the board... Whether discussing art, sports, politics, news... WHATEVER. Twitter and Facebook tend to not be quite as unrestrained because people are usually using their real names or something close to it and their profiles are linked to their comments, but you are still "hiding behind the Internet" to a degree even on those sites.

I just don't see the behaviour on this board or any other Bonsai forum as being eve close to the kind of anarchy and disarray I encounter on other forums every day- ESPECIALLY sports forums!

 

[Sterling355]

It isnt just bonsai. I dont care what topic you pick but it happens in every board Ive been on. You think it gets bad here? Try a video gaming forum, better yet, a competative video gaming forum. They make this place look like a church social.

Any time you get a group of people together, especially a large group from different places, with various backgrounds you are going to get disagreements. What matters is how we handle ourselves in these situations. That is what separates us from the "animals".

I've been on plenty of competitive video game forums and you're absolutely correct, it is a cesspool. Video games are designed for competition though which is directed towards one of the most immature audiences ever riddled with a population overflowing with insecurities and god complex personalities. I thought bonsai was something where you could create something that YOU found appreciation in, share it, and could praise the creativity of others, not this "I can play with little trees better than you can". People need to let go the idea that they know everything and drop insecurities that fuel these insulting attacks.

 

[mcpesq817]

Yes, video game boards are definitely on the far end of the spectrum. Investing boards can be cesspools as well.

On the other hand, I've been on electronics, photography and model ship building boards, and folks there are very helpful and agreeable. I don't think it has to do with the level of moderation either - you just don't have the attitudes and nastiness that you see elsewhere.

 

[Dav4]

Fwiw, I think the knowledgeable, helpful posters here at B'nut far outnumber (via number of posts) the truly clueless, overtly obnoxious, or mean spirited posters. A well thought out, reasonable response to a question rarely draws a lot of attention, good or bad. It's the over the top crap that creates all the rubber necking.

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Bonsai is an expressive art.... and any expressive art where someone shows their work to the masses is bound to create anxiety and touchiness. I don't really care if my trees are as magnificent as someone else... I might be a little envious, but that is always overpowered by being completely impressed. There are many trees by other folks I so adore, that I would not wish to adjust so much as a twig.... and Kokofu winning masterpieces I would completely overhaul. lol This art is so completely subject to personal interpretation that clashes are inevitable. I'd rather hear a passionate opinion, than a mealy mouthed response.

What most people fail to do is temper their passions with respect. But we often see the rampant failure of respect even among our peerless pearls we so admire in the professional world. So how would many realize that's the lack we need to imbue into our art. Respect for the trees.... respect for each other.... respect for experience.... respect for ourselves. No one's effort is beneath us... because no one sprang fully formed into mastery like Athena from the head of Zeus.

Warmly,

Victrinia

 

[Smoke]

Bonsai is an expressive art.... and any expressive art where someone shows their work to the masses is bound to create anxiety and touchiness. I don't really care if my trees are as magnificent as someone else... I might be a little envious, but that is always overpowered by being completely impressed. There are many trees by other folks I so adore, that I would not wish to adjust so much as a twig.... and Kokofu winning masterpieces I would completely overhaul. lol This art is so completely subject to personal interpretation that clashes are inevitable. I'd rather hear a passionate opinion, than a mealy mouthed response.

What most people fail to do is temper their passions with respect. But we often see the rampant failure of respect even among our peerless pearls we so admire in the professional world. So how would many realize that's the lack we need to imbue into our art. Respect for the trees.... respect for each other.... respect for experience.... respect for ourselves. No one's effort is beneath us... because no one sprang fully formed into mastery like Athena from the head of Zeus.

Warmly,

Victrinia

nice.....you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him shut up....

 

[Poink88]

Yes, video game boards are definitely on the far end of the spectrum. Investing boards can be cesspools as well.

On the other hand, I've been on electronics, photography and model ship building boards, and folks there are very helpful and agreeable. I don't think it has to do with the level of moderation either - you just don't have the attitudes and nastiness that you see elsewhere.

I'd add woodworking/woodturning forums...they are usually very helpful and generous sharing what they know (and even supplies and tools). Those were my first forums to join and foolishly assumed most forums will be the same.

Gun/shooting related forums can get a bit spirited (my 2nd forum type) but I was surprised that bonsai forum (my 3rd group) members are the most "passionate" of the 3 groups.

 

[fore]

Bonsai is an expressive art.... and any expressive art where someone shows their work to the masses is bound to create anxiety and touchiness. I don't really care if my trees are as magnificent as someone else... I might be a little envious, but that is always overpowered by being completely impressed. There are many trees by other folks I so adore, that I would not wish to adjust so much as a twig.... and Kokofu winning masterpieces I would completely overhaul. lol This art is so completely subject to personal interpretation that clashes are inevitable. I'd rather hear a passionate opinion, than a mealy mouthed response.

What most people fail to do is temper their passions with respect. But we often see the rampant failure of respect even among our peerless pearls we so admire in the professional world. So how would many realize that's the lack we need to imbue into our art. Respect for the trees.... respect for each other.... respect for experience.... respect for ourselves. No one's effort is beneath us... because no one sprang fully formed into mastery like Athena from the head of Zeus.

Warmly,

Victrinia

This is a problem with all of our country right now, lack of respect for each other and opposing views.

 

[Don Blackmond]

This is a problem with all of our country right now, lack of respect for each other and opposing views.

I respect your opinion and agree 100%....