Bonsai Auction/99 Cent Bonsai Shadiness - and a better alternative!

[Bonsai Nut]

Well, then what would you suggest in your infinite Facebook wisdom?

Seriously, I would like to know how I can participate in the Bonsai Auctions without having to post pictures of the pancakes that I ate for breakfast or having to read about the political opinions of the guy who sat three seats behind me in high school history class.

It isn't easy - particularly since Facebook has been forced to make privacy changes due to all the security scrutiny they have received from Congress lately. Apparently the US public woke up one morning and realized that Facebook actually DOES all the things that Facebook says it does... and has been saying so for 15 years.

Assume that anything you put on Facebook belongs to Facebook for all time. That includes not only your contact information, but your activity - your friends, your contacts, your searches, the pages you visit, the ads you click on, etc. It includes all of the "private" text content in Facebook Messenger. It includes the content you "like". And all of that information can be searched and sold to the highest bidder, or hacked. It is surprisingly easy to search as a potential employer, even ten years after the fact.

So because I distrust Facebook as the security black hole that I know it to be, I created a Facebook account to do NOTHING other than bonsai auctions. I used a unique email that I ONLY use for Facebook bonsai. I used a fake name "Bonsai Nut". This was before Facebook required a "real" name and a "real" phone number to register. If I had to, I would use a burner app to create a temp phone number to register. Make sure you never use Messenger to send private information like your real name or shipping address - always use an outside application like standard email. If you register thoughtfully, and stay disciplined to use your Facebook account only for a couple of private groups, the problems are minimized.

I have only purchased a few items on the Facebook Bonsai Auction sites, and have not had any problems - with the admins or with the sellers. It's the Facebook platform itself that makes me nervous. However the problem with using someone else's free technology is that there is no barrier to entry for someone else to do the exact same thing - which is what is happening in this case.

I am not going to comment on other peoples' bonsai auction site attempts other than to say that it is an activity / business that I have no interest getting involved in. Too many potential issues. It is hard enough just to manage a platform for people to TALK about bonsai - let alone sell them

 

[coh]

I love me a good facebook bashing thread! LOL.

I've sold a number of trees on the auction sites with only one problem (non-paying bidder, who was subsequently tossed out). All the trees I sold went for more than I expected. There definitely seems to be a tendency for people to pay more than I would think a tree is worth. I haven't bought any tree there for the same reason, most of the stuff that looks decent gets bid up higher than I want to pay.

Those of you who don't like facebook, fine stay away! Less competition for the rest of us.

To the OP (@Justice4Bonsai ), is there going to be an equivalent of the 99cent group that has no "fee"? That's where I've done all of my selling.

 

[Potsofgreen]

Since when is there a fee? I've sold all kinds of stuff on .99 cent auction and i have not been charged once...am i missing something?

 

[rockm]

No dog in this fight here....but I fully support those who abandon facebook and the like.
I've never been on Facebook, Twitter Instagram or any social site other than Bnut.....don't intend to start now.

Why?
I don't like the censorship or the general wide-ranging damage it has caused to basic human social interaction.
I think it can be used for good, sure....but its just not for me.

I don't understand people who say they've never tried something yet condemn it. Sure, Facebook is one factor in the deterioration of human interaction.

However, you have not protested the larger technological environment that you're using RIGHT NOW. The 'net supports multitudes of corrosive stuff--including forums like this one--on which I've seen more toxic exchanges that I've EVER seen on FB. Not to mention the corrosive stuff (which has become self-selecting censorship) that now fills the public airwaves and cable...

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Since when is there a fee? I've sold all kinds of stuff on .99 cent auction and i have not been charged once...am i missing something?

Apparently one is being introduced. That is what the issue is.

 

[Martin Sweeney]

To the OP (@Justice4Bonsai ), is there going to be an equivalent of the 99cent group that has no "fee"? That's where I've done all of my selling.

The resurrected Bonsai Auctions page allows more posts per week, I believe 6 of which can have a value under $20 and 6 of which can be over $20. Anyway, it is in the rules/pinned post

 

[Cadillactaste]

What he said. Besides I’m ok paying a small fee for a service. I’ve been paying eBay, PayPal, and other bonsai sites fees for various services so I don’t see a big problem with it.

Buyers don't pay a fee using eBay.

 

[Warpig]

To my knowledge it is still the best way to get better quality material aside from whats in your driving range. Im ok with it as it stands now. Now if there was a better way...

 

[Cadillactaste]

The fees are for their time... but I can't see this new direction not taking more time trying to decide who owes what... it's giving them more time spent behind the computer is my thinking. Buyers pay by donation per month. If ones aren't paying enough it sounds like a fee will be added for using the group.

 

[Palltergeist]

No dog in this fight here....but I fully support those who abandon facebook and the like.
I've never been on Facebook, Twitter Instagram or any social site other than Bnut.....don't intend to start now.

Why?
I don't like the censorship or the general wide-ranging damage it has caused to basic human social interaction.
I think it can be used for good, sure....but its just not for me.

out of curiosity

-where do you get your pots? (example: I'm not best friends in 'real life' with Nelson or Matt O, and I wouldn't just pick up the phone and call them at 8pm on a Saturday night. but that's when the pot auctions end, and i find myself talking to Nel or Matt every Saturday night)

-how do you stay in touch with the very vibrant north american and international bonsai community? (there are so many people in the world doing so many amazing things--and taking the time to share--and I can't imagine how else I would expose myself, learn, and stay in touch with so many people)

-where do you see pictures/videos of events? (for example, in the last months I have seen every tree in the 2019 Gafu-ten and Sakufu-ten shows, and look forward to the Kokufu pictures)

99% of my time on facebook is spent this way. the usual claims against facebook: censorship, 'spying', etc. don't apply to me, and in my experience/usage facebook has done no harm to any of my social interactions--to the contrary, i have developed new relationships with more people than ever, my interactions with others has increased dramatically, and all without compromising the time i spend face-to-face with people at work, family, and friends

facebook is a tool like any other. it's up to the user to use it in positive ways

 

[rockm]

out of curiosity

-where do you get your pots? (example: I'm not best friends in 'real life' with Nelson or Matt O, and I wouldn't just pick up the phone and call them at 8pm on a Saturday night. but that's when the pot auctions end, and i find myself talking to Nel or Matt every Saturday night)

-how do you stay in touch with the very vibrant north american and international bonsai community? (there are so many people in the world doing so many amazing things--and taking the time to share--and I can't imagine how else I would expose myself, learn, and stay in touch with so many people)

-where do you see pictures/videos of events? (for example, in the last months I have seen every tree in the 2019 Gafu-ten and Sakufu-ten shows, and look forward to the Kokufu pictures)

99% of my time on facebook is spent this way. the usual claims against facebook: censorship, 'spying', etc. don't apply to me, and in my experience/usage facebook has done no harm to any of my social interactions--to the contrary, i have developed new relationships with more people than ever, my interactions with others has increased dramatically, and all without compromising the time i spend face-to-face with people at work, family, and friends

facebook is a tool like any other. it's up to the user to use it in positive ways

Ditto. Although you can occasionally cross paths with people who got thrown off of here for being assholes...;-)

 

[Cadillactaste]

Ditto. Although you can occasionally cross paths with people who got thrown off of here for being assholes...;-)

Unless they block you. because you know their number and stated it. That would be me.

 

[sorce]

more toxic exchanges that I've EVER seen on FB. Not to mention the corrosive stuff

Most of that shit is deleted. Comparatively, we got nothing, and at least it's ALL still here to read.

Fuck that word "toxic".

They just use it to sell medications.

FFB. And the rest. All 'um.

Sorce

 

[jimib]

Buyers don't pay a fee using eBay.

The sellers do. They're charging the sellers 3%, buyers can donate if they want.

 

[just.wing.it]

out of curiosity

-where do you get your pots? (example: I'm not best friends in 'real life' with Nelson or Matt O, and I wouldn't just pick up the phone and call them at 8pm on a Saturday night. but that's when the pot auctions end, and i find myself talking to Nel or Matt every Saturday night)

-how do you stay in touch with the very vibrant north american and international bonsai community? (there are so many people in the world doing so many amazing things--and taking the time to share--and I can't imagine how else I would expose myself, learn, and stay in touch with so many people)

-where do you see pictures/videos of events? (for example, in the last months I have seen every tree in the 2019 Gafu-ten and Sakufu-ten shows, and look forward to the Kokufu pictures)

99% of my time on facebook is spent this way. the usual claims against facebook: censorship, 'spying', etc. don't apply to me, and in my experience/usage facebook has done no harm to any of my social interactions--to the contrary, i have developed new relationships with more people than ever, my interactions with others has increased dramatically, and all without compromising the time i spend face-to-face with people at work, family, and friends

facebook is a tool like any other. it's up to the user to use it in positive ways

Ditto. Although you can occasionally cross paths with people who got thrown off of here for being assholes...;-)

Its not like I don't use the Internet.
Its a great tool certainly.
I'm not anti Tech either.

@rockm I get your point, but I don't think anyone needs to join and use Facebook to know all one needs to know about it.
Those various platforms are in the news daily, its totally unavoidable whether I'm a member or not.

I also tend to shy away from things that the crowds are running towards.
I cant tell you how many of my friends and family have tried to get me to join Snapchat or Instagram, or some such similar thing......I decline out of principle at this point.

Maybe I should tell them to join Bnut....

 

[just.wing.it]

I agree. I think on balance social media has done more damage to society than good.

I feel bad for those in positions where they have to hire young people today....
These kids dont know how to speak in person, they cant make eye contact.....its sad really.....they are screwed up from screens!

I bet if the hiring manager had special glasses on that had 2 small LCD screens showing his/her eyes, they'd have no problem staring.

What the hell is the world gonna look like in 30 years?......scary.

 

[Colorado]

It isn't easy - particularly since Facebook has been forced to make privacy changes due to all the security scrutiny they have received from Congress lately. Apparently the US public woke up one morning and realized that Facebook actually DOES all the things that Facebook says it does... and has been saying so for 15 years.

Assume that anything you put on Facebook belongs to Facebook for all time. That includes not only your contact information, but your activity - your friends, your contacts, your searches, the pages you visit, the ads you click on, etc. It includes all of the "private" text content in Facebook Messenger. It includes the content you "like". And all of that information can be searched and sold to the highest bidder, or hacked. It is surprisingly easy to search as a potential employer, even ten years after the fact.

So because I distrust Facebook as the security black hole that I know it to be, I created a Facebook account to do NOTHING other than bonsai auctions. I used a unique email that I ONLY use for Facebook bonsai. I used a fake name "Bonsai Nut". This was before Facebook required a "real" name and a "real" phone number to register. If I had to, I would use a burner app to create a temp phone number to register. Make sure you never use Messenger to send private information like your real name or shipping address - always use an outside application like standard email. If you register thoughtfully, and stay disciplined to use your Facebook account only for a couple of private groups, the problems are minimized.

I have only purchased a few items on the Facebook Bonsai Auction sites, and have not had any problems - with the admins or with the sellers. It's the Facebook platform itself that makes me nervous. However the problem with using someone else's free technology is that there is no barrier to entry for someone else to do the exact same thing - which is what is happening in this case.

I am not going to comment on other peoples' bonsai auction site attempts other than to say that it is an activity / business that I have no interest getting involved in. Too many potential issues. It is hard enough just to manage a platform for people to TALK about bonsai - let alone sell them

Exactly what I’m trying to do. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Cadillactaste]

The sellers do. They're charging the sellers 3%, buyers can donate if they want.

But I hate saying this. I hate gray areas. They want buyers to send donations of what they felt the services was worth. Charge a flat fee to be a member / seller would be easier and more understanding of what one owes.

 

[rockm]

Most of that shit is deleted. Comparatively, we got nothing, and at least it's ALL still here to read.

Fuck that word "toxic".

They just use it to sell medications.

FFB. And the rest. All 'um.

Sorce

OK, instead of toxic, how about "fucked up"

 

[Colorado]

Seriously, stop bitching at me about what YOU won't do. YOU CAN'T really participate in FB auction, UNLESS YOU'RE A MEMBER OF FACEBOOK. Calling people names because YOU have opted NOT to join is pretty silly. Obviously, FB is NOT what you stereotype it as. Maybe time to reconsider the decision not to join...

LOL! I think we may have discovered the secret identity of one of the moderators of the “other” auction groups.