Big Mountain Sage update

[scottc]

The trees (bushes) are doing just fine indoors. I’m happy to have plants in the house I can mess with a bit. I transferred one into a better pot with better soil and will do the same with the other. I’ll have to find out after they have settled for a while if I can clip em shorter and get new growth lower and keep them small. I cleaned off most of the dead outer bark that is super stringy on the one in round pot to expose the cool growth on the stalks. Just a fun mess around project that I thought I’d share. They both came off a cliff face at about 6k feet elevation in Utah. I’m almost thinking I liked the one in the nicer pot laid on it’s side like I had it origenaly and may go back to that.

 

[milehigh_7]

LOVE! Please post regular updates and keep notes on your care.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I like these. Please do keep us updated.

 

[AZbonsai]

Going to have to become more serious in my sage hunting. These are fantastic. Really need to develop more options for bonsai for the desert southwest region. That starts with people like you putting up some nice work. Do you find the branches difficult to bend under wire? I have always thought they were brittle.

 

[Ry2Tree2]

These are indoors in a heated area in winter? I am surprised to see that because the sage I know (Artesmia tridentata) lives in eastern Washington to the Rockies where they experience very cold winters in nature.


As an aside, I have always expected if you could successfully transplant them that they would make good subjects. There are millions or billions of them out there - just don't collect from any fire recovering areas as they take decades to reestablish.

 

[scottc]

They seem to be doing just great downstairs in a window. I added a led For 18 hours a day and they like it. I have them inside because I want a plant I can mess with. Trust me I clipped half if not more off them the second night. The branches bend just fine with wire but are a fine shape for the time being. Lite/lite liquid fertilizer. I’ll move them to my living room after a bit and most likely outside in spring when it’s warm for me. These plants could take 40 below I’m sure. They are super slow growers I would guess these are 20 years as the info I looked up say big mountain sage grows 2.5 centimeters on the slow side. These are off a cliff face. I’m going to add some music for them as they were used to freeway sounds. I’ll see how that changes them. Sound dumb but I find plants like music.

 

[milehigh_7]

These are indoors in a heated area in winter? I am surprised to see that because the sage I know (Artesmia tridentata) lives in eastern Washington to the Rockies where they experience very cold winters in nature.


As an aside, I have always expected if you could successfully transplant them that they would make good subjects. There are millions or billions of them out there - just don't collect from any fire recovering areas as they take decades to reestablish.

I believe these are tridentata. At least they look like it. That's what I grew up with as well and that's why I can't believe the success he's having!

 

[milehigh_7]

However, I have discovered that another plant that does oddly well indoors is the creosote bush from the very hottest parts of the desert Southwest.

 

[Ry2Tree2]

View attachment 171611 They seem to be doing just great downstairs in a window. I added a led For 18 hours a day and they like it. I have them inside because I want a plant I can mess with. Trust me I clipped half if not more off them the second night. The branches bend just fine with wire but are a fine shape for the time being. Lite/lite liquid fertilizer. I’ll move them to my living room after a bit and most likely outside in spring when it’s warm for me. These plants could take 40 below I’m sure. They are super slow growers I would guess these are 20 years as the info I looked up say big mountain sage grows 2.5 centimeters on the slow side. These are off a cliff face. I’m going to add some music for them as they were used to freeway sounds. I’ll see how that changes them. Sound dumb but I find plants like music.

How long have you had them for? It could take more than one season for a plant to show it is stressed from being deprived of dormancy. Tropicals are wonderful to mess with indoors in winter though.

 

[scottc]

How long have you had them for? It could take more than one season for a plant to show it is stressed from being deprived of dormancy. Tropicals are wonderful to mess with indoors in winter though.

I’ll put em outside in late January so they get the Winter for 2.5 months. Winter has hit so late here that it was super warm still on the sunny rock face they came off. Outside of Salt Lake City is where I got them at 6k elevation

 

[Lazylightningny]

When I lived in Utah, I never could keep the artemesia tridentada alive.

 

[plant_dr]

It's true that we haven't had a good snow yet here this year. But that doesn't mean these plants haven't already begun their dormancy period. Their transport systems are all but shut down for the time being so you may not be able to gauge their survival till spring. In fact, bringing them inside for these several weeks to your home temperatures before plunging it back into cold winter conditions is probably going to confuse the crap out of them- further solidifying their demise.

There are about 112 bazillion of these out here and I have seen some monster sized trunks on them in my hikes in the mountains. I've been very tempted to collect them but haven't seen many used as bonsai. I figured there must be a good reason for that so I opted out. If yours survive, more power to ya.

 

[Ry2Tree2]

When I lived in Utah, I never could keep the artemesia tridentada alive.

Transplanting is probably the hardest part since they grow long tap roots in their dry native range. I have thought about ground layering to make collection easier, but I have heard of numerous people who had some success. I wonder if it would even survive in Seattle though to make it worth my while as our winter is much wetter than the east side of the cascades where they are abundant.

It's true that we haven't had a good snow yet here this year. But that doesn't mean these plants haven't already begun their dormancy period. Their transport systems are all but shut down for the time being so you may not be able to gauge their survival till spring. In fact, bringing them inside for these several weeks to your home temperatures before plunging it back into cold winter conditions is probably going to confuse the crap out of them- further solidifying their demise.

The heat of room temperature would make them not dormant yet. There is still a chance though if they can adjust to become dormant outside during a mild period of weather.

 

[scottc]

Do you guys really think a plant will know the difference between 1 year and 3 years if I control light cycle and moisture on a bush? A pine tree, yes. That’s why mine is sitting in my garage. These are bushes. I kept a plant that is legal in some states not in others in a veg state for 2.5 years. 16 feet tall. Then put in fall light conditions to force flower creation. Amazing results. But I was aiming for huge and that’s what I got. I’m going with these plants think it’s summer. 18 hours of led light per day. Led sucks for growth. But does keep plant alive. Water uptake is noticeable as the leaves shrink and swell as I water. The tap roots were small on these. Like I said, growing in a crack on a cliff face. 1 foot long and 1/4x1” wide. I grabbed the cliff face sage because of the environment it lived in. A ground sage would be impossible. Just what I was thinking. Time will tell.

 

[Ry2Tree2]

Do you guys really think a plant will know the difference between 1 year and 3 years if I control light cycle and moisture on a bush? A pine tree, yes. That’s why mine is sitting in my garage. These are bushes. I kept a plant that is legal in some states not in others in a veg state for 2.5 years. 16 feet tall. Then put in fall light conditions to force flower creation. Amazing results. But I was aiming for huge and that’s what I got. I’m going with these plants think it’s summer. 18 hours of led light per day. Led sucks for growth. But does keep plant alive. Water uptake is noticeable as the leaves shrink and swell as I water. The tap roots were small on these. Like I said, growing in a crack on a cliff face. 1 foot long and 1/4x1” wide. I grabbed the cliff face sage because of the environment it lived in. A ground sage would be impossible. Just what I was thinking. Time will tell.

Trees that require dormancy pay attention to the temperature. It's not all about light. In spring temperate trees using stored carbohydrates for new growth, fall they are storing carbohydrates for next spring. A tree indoors experiences static warm temperatures year round, possibly late spring weather. I wish I had a more detailed understanding of the whole deal, but what I have heard time and again that temperate trees grown indoors and deprived of dormancy will ultimately die of carbohydrate exhaustion. Mechanistic explanations aside, it is clear they have evolved to be outside and need to experience this cold period every year.

 

[AZbonsai]

"deprived of dormancy will ultimately die of carbohydrate exhaustion" this has been my understanding as well.

 

[milehigh_7]

Transplanting is probably the hardest part since they grow long tap roots in their dry native range. I have thought about ground layering to make collection easier, but I have heard of numerous people who had some success. I wonder if it would even survive in Seattle though to make it worth my while as our winter is much wetter than the east side of the cascades where they are abundant.



The heat of room temperature would make them not dormant yet. There is still a chance though if they can adjust to become dormant outside during a mild period of weather.

The other thing that complicates these is that each branch is connected to a root. Sorta like disarming a bomb, cut the wrong root and the branch that's connected will die.

 

[milehigh_7]

Truth is, I would not worry overly much about the dormancy issue with these. Desert plants don't have single dormancy like say a maple. They will go dormant when the water supply is low and stay there, in some cases for years. Like the aforementioned creasote bush can be dormant for a few years, it gets a huge flooding rain and back to a quick growing season.

If his sages die, it will be because they did not like the root work.

 

[scottc]

The other thing that complicates these is that each branch is connected to a root. Sorta like disarming a bomb, cut the wrong root and the branch that's connected will die.

I’ll have to go get a few more and take pictures. I get off shale cliff so the roots are tiny. 1/3 the size of the plant.

 

[scottc]

Still happy! They like the LED light and visiblely take up water. Such a mild winter here I might put em outside soon.