Big Boi Cedar Elm clump

[Rodrigo]

I bought this cedar elm clump last week for a great deal! Supposedly it's been in that 55 gallon barrel "pot" for about 20 years and is still in the original soil it was collected in. The roots had grown into the ground and they had to use a forklift to get it into the truck. I believe most of the trunks are actually connected but I'll be able to see for sure when I repot it.

Here it is still at the nursery, this would be the backside.



Closeup of trunks


At my friends house for now (too big for my apartment but I'll be moving to a house in March). This is the correct front


Plan for now is to do quick pruning to get rid of dead branches and get it ready for spring. In the spring I'll be building a grow box and repotting it to get rid of the old soil and get it into good bonsai soil. I'm excited to work on it, it's going to be a fun one!

 

[sorce]

Thats nice.

I like where the trunks and branches go.

Sorce

 

[Tieball]

Mighty fine! I like the uneven natural appearance of the trunks....crossing trunks and all. And....there’s a really nice thickness difference in the trunks like I see in a natural woods. Looks very realistic. Well done!

 

[Davidlpf]

Nice tree, congratulations!!

Take a look at this click,click

Maybe give to you some inspiration

Greetings from Spain.

 

[just.wing.it]

Wow, that's cool!
Big project!

 

[Rodrigo]

Nice tree, congratulations!!

Take a look at this click,click

Maybe give to you some inspiration

Greetings from Spain.

That's an amazing clump! Definitely something to look at for inspiration. Thanks for sharing!

Mighty fine! I like the uneven natural appearance of the trunks....crossing trunks and all. And....there’s a really nice thickness difference in the trunks like I see in a natural woods. Looks very realistic. Well done!

Yeah I agree that it does look very natural, even with the crossing trunks. It was collected 20 years ago in the same positioning as it is now so it looks as natural as Mother Nature can make it

We'll see how easy our hard it is to repot.

 

[AlainK]

Nice trove ! The lines of the trunks are already almost perfect. It shouldn't be too difficult to correct that (or not) with guy wires, crutches, etc.

Lucky you, you'll have a lot of fun making it even better.

 

[Tieball]

I also like seeing how natural the finer branching, well, all the branching really, looks. The tree branching has nice directional changing without looking to be curve-forced by wire. If you did wire....nicely done. Effective.

Question: Cedar Elm trees.....Can you be drastic on root removal? Like I can on American Elm?

Take some root photos. I regret not taking root photos on my American Elm trees. It would have been nice for reference as I work on the trees (the trees are only one season off a plain trunk dug up). I recall really great roots all around. But it would be nice to be able to compare early root pruning to the next pruning in a couple of seasons.

My plan is keeping them boxed after root pruning for at least 4 seasons. When I dug my trees (American Elm) from ground soil and moved them to a coarse substrate the trees took off with incredible growth within about 3 weeks...and continued. Excellent healthy growth really.

 

[AlainK]

cedar elm

Ulmus crassifolia

Never seen any in Europe.

Found some interesting info here : https://plants.jstor.org/search?plantName=Ulmus+crassifolia

Looks like a great plant for bonsai. And I think, If it grows where you are, it will be fine here. Must find a source in Europe.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Ulmus crassifolia

Never seen any in Europe.

Found some interesting info here : https://plants.jstor.org/search?plantName=Ulmus+crassifolia

Looks like a great plant for bonsai. And I think, If it grows where you are, it will be fine here. Must find a source in Europe.

Thanks for sharing.

Maastricht trainstation, near the bicycle parking on the non-city-centre side has four or five of them growing next to the sidewalk. It's not much, but it's a source.

 

[Rodrigo]

I also like seeing how natural the finer branching, well, all the branching really, looks. The tree branching has nice directional changing without looking to be curve-forced by wire. If you did wire....nicely done. Effective.

Thank you! This tree hasn't been wired, or really worked on at all, other than slight pruning over the years. Everything there is naturally growth. Now the key will be enhancing that without making it look "man-made".

Question: Cedar Elm trees.....Can you be drastic on root removal? Like I can on American Elm?

If the tree is healthy, you can be pretty aggressive when root pruning aCedar Elm. I'm not really sure what to expect since it's been in the original soil all of these years but I'm sure once it's in better soil it'll take off like yours did. I'll definitely be documenting the repot and updating this thread.

Found some interesting info here : https://plants.jstor.org/search?plantName=Ulmus+crassifolia

Thanks for the link Alain, it's quite informative!

 

[rockm]

Thank you! This tree hasn't been wired, or really worked on at all, other than slight pruning over the years. Everything there is naturally growth. Now the key will be enhancing that without making it look "man-made".


If the tree is healthy, you can be pretty aggressive when root pruning aCedar Elm. I'm not really sure what to expect since it's been in the original soil all of these years but I'm sure once it's in better soil it'll take off like yours did. I'll definitely be documenting the repot and updating this thread.


Thanks for the link Alain, it's quite informative!

I don't know how experienced you are with Cedar Elm, but they are extremely tough, forgiving material. If this great group were mine, I'd aggressively remove ALL the old soil on the roots. See what the exposed root mass looks like. These can take root reduction of 90 percent or more, depending on presence of feeders close in. Even so, CE are collected with all those removed and placed in bonsai soil Recovery is pretty quick if done in early spring just before bud break.

 

[sorce]

I watched this last night.

OutKast is the Shit!

Sorce

 

[Rodrigo]

I don't know how experienced you are with Cedar Elm, but they are extremely tough, forgiving material. If this great group were mine, I'd aggressively remove ALL the old soil on the roots. See what the exposed root mass looks like. These can take root reduction of 90 percent or more, depending on presence of feeders close in. Even so, CE are collected with all those removed and placed in bonsai soil Recovery is pretty quick if done in early spring just before bud break.

That's great to know. That's going to be the plan at repotting time, remove all of the old soil and get it ready for the growing season. I need to build a training box for it but without knowing exactly what's under the soil now I'm not sure how to go about it. Any suggestions?

 

[rockm]

That's great to know. That's going to be the plan at repotting time, remove all of the old soil and get it ready for the growing season. I need to build a training box for it but without knowing exactly what's under the soil now I'm not sure how to go about it. Any suggestions?

The only way to know what's going on under the soil, is to work it. If this were my tree, this coming spring (and this is probably late Feb./early March for you, but I'd ask around with more local practitioners for more accurate time frames) I'd pull it out of the container it's in now, saw off the bottom third of the root mass immediately. I'd then strip all the soil off of the remaining root mass by blasting it with a hose. Once all the old soil is gone, you will have a good view of the root situation ... What you want to do from there depends on the density and health. I'd remove all BIG roots all the way up to the bottom of the trees. I'd also consider sawing another third of the root mass off too, then working with what's left, sorting out the directions and eliminating dominant roots.

For the container, I'd estimate building one to two thirds the depth of the current container--the smaller the better. Trees are lost because training containers are built too big. too much soil retains too much water...Have the container built and ready BEFORE you start working the roots.

I'd also start reducing the tops of the trees too. I'd sort out the unnecessary branches and remove them. I'd reduce what's left by a third. Seal the cuts.

This is an aggressive approach, but Cedar Elm are very tough and recover quickly. You can also take a more conservative approach as far as reduction goes. I WOULD NOT however, leave any field soil on the roots. It is a big problem as it inhibits root development. It's not necessary. Leaving field soil on collected deciduous trees is mostly an outdated practice.

 

[Rodrigo]

This weekend was repotting time for this clump. This thing was heavy! We struggled big-time between 3 people and ended up breaking the table as we were trying to get it on.


The only way we could get it out was cutting the barrel off on pieces.


Raking out the old soil. It was literally all mud and muck from the original collection.


After about an hour of cleaning out soil we had a long ways to go. We didn't want to just saw the bottom off right away because there were very thick circling roots and we didn't know how close to the trunk the were feeder roots were.


That's a 14" root cutter in action for reference; those are still attached to the tree. There were quite a few roots this size with bearly any roots until the tips.

 

[Rodrigo]

With the help of a pressure tip, we used the hose to help clean out the soil.


Not even half of the roots we cut off.


Almost done cleaning out old soil.


Turns out they were actually two separate clumps that grew together.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I watched this last night.

OutKast is the Shit!

Sorce

No. 2 pac 4 eva.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

With the help of a pressure tip, we used the hose to help clean out the soil.
View attachment 285182

Not even half of the roots we cut off.
View attachment 285183

Almost done cleaning out old soil.
View attachment 285184

Turns out they were actually two separate clumps that grew together.
View attachment 285185

I had a Cedar Elm clump do something like that. It was a bunch of seedling that grew together. When I cut the tap root, one came loose while the others remain fused. I applied a scew to keep all together.

It's not all bad. You get to a chance to rearrange them or put them back like before.

 

[Rodrigo]

What roots remain on each of the two clumps. You can see the 14" cutters from my previous post to the right.



Didn't get to take pics while we wired them in because we needed all hands but here it is in its new box for the next couple of years. (Sorry for the bad backdrop, I'll try to get a better picture)