Best time to remover airlayer - JM Mikawa Yatsubusa

[SgtPilko]

Hey folks,

I have a Mikawa Yatsubusa maple that I am airlayering off its standard (and ugly) AP grafted base. I set the airlayer last summer so must have left it 6 months+ now. I opened the pot up and can see some roots have grown, but I wouldn't say its is really packed with roots.

The buds are really extended now so would be a natural time to detach and pot up, but maybe I can get some more root growth in early spring, plus if i detach now presumably there may be excessive sap loss.

What do you reckon, best to leave until hardened off, defoliate a little bit then detach and pot "out of potting season" ? Sorry no pics of the airlayer roots in the little pot.

Thanks gang

 

[Jphipps]

The more important factor is sufficient roots as opposed to timing of separation. If you don't think there are enough roots on the air layer currently, give it more time while it is attached. Going to be an awesome tree. I wouldn't push your luck and risk not having enough roots to sustain the air layer right after separation.

"Out of potting season" for an air layer doesn't apply quite the same as a regular repot.

 

[doc spring _work]

Hey folks,

I have a Mikawa Yatsubusa maple that I am airlayering off its standard (and ugly) AP grafted base. I set the airlayer last summer so must have left it 6 months+ now. I opened the pot up and can see some roots have grown, but I wouldn't say its is really packed with roots.

The buds are really extended now so would be a natural time to detach and pot up, but maybe I can get some more root growth in early spring, plus if i detach now presumably there may be excessive sap loss.

What do you reckon, best to leave until hardened off, defoliate a little bit then detach and pot "out of potting season" ? Sorry no pics of the airlayer roots in the little pot.

Thanks gang

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Love the use of a solo cup! Definitely going to use that when it comes time for me to start my air layers this year!!

 

[SgtPilko]

Love the use of a solo cup! Definitely going to use that when it comes time for me to start my air layers this year!!

Its a little flimsy pot from some garden bedding plant, I cut a hole in the bottom and then a slit down the side so it kind of opens and closes - duct tape to seal it and wire holds it up in place, the top is open to the elements for rain and watering

 

[Shibui]

Spring is an ideal time to remove an air layer. That's the time of maximum root growth so even layers with less than ideal roots will power away as the new leaves emerge. There's also less stress on the tree as there are no or few leaves that need support until more roots have grown.
Later in the season there may be more roots but the tree will also have a full canopy of leaves and the weather will also be warmer and, therefore more stressful for the freshly removed layers.
The real decision will depend on how much is 'some roots but not packed'. I've certainly removed layers with very little root that have survived and thrived. Just make sure the tree is well anchored in the new pot as the new roots are quite brittle and break off easily. Don't try to remove whatever rooting media you have used at this stage. Much safer when the roots are stronger next season.

Bleeding of the layer will not be a problem as maples do not bleed down, only from the top of cuts so the stump may bleed but, presumably as it has a bad graft you won't care if the stump lives or not.
If you do want to save the stump and are bleeding is a problem a quick repot and root prune stops the bleeding immediately.

 

[MACH5]

As @Shibui mentioned above and I will reiterate what he said. Do not try and comb out the roots when you first separate your air layer. The roots are too tender and will result in more damage than necessary. I have seen too many folks separating their layers in late August, which you can do with no problem, but then they go ahead and comb out and clean the rotting media from the roots to get them looking nice and pretty. Please avoid doing this!

 

[SgtPilko]

Thanks all, some mild differing opinion but that's bonsai! I'll investigate again today and make a call on whether there is enough root to sustain it, and be sure not to disturb the roots too much, just pot it up safely.

 

[SgtPilko]

This is my first airlayer on anything, so a slow-moving exotic cultivar probably not the best subject but I explored further and separated the layer!

All the roots are on one side but more abundant than i first thought, should be OK. Lots of callus on the "front" but no roots. Scored and used clonex before potting up. Had to break Don Sergio's rule and cleaned up a bit with a very soft paintbrush to get in there Getting a nice little bit of flare going on from the tourniquet I think.

Potted up carefully (and quite deep) in a new container and then also chopped and repotted the old rootstock so let's see if I can do anything with that piece, quite bold but it's a free hit. Cheers!

 

[Jphipps]

Looks like it might be overpotted a bit there. I'd be really careful with watering or put it into something smaller so the roots don't stay too wet. Maybe just a touch bigger than what the air layer was in.

 

[SeanS]

How did you secure the layer into the pot? A good practise is to secure some wires to the rim of the pot and then secure them loosely (but stick firmly) to the branches/trunks. You want zero movement of the separated layer while the new roots establish themselves.

With the plastic pot you’re using you can just punch some holes through the rim.

 

[Shibui]

More than enough roots there for it to survive so no problem separating that one.
I have no problem with a slightly oversized pot, especially where the soil mix is free draining. Should always monitor soil moisture on recently potted trees to avoid soggy soil until the new roots grow through the new soil and pot.
Tying trees into the pot depends on how stable the tree is and conditions it is likely to endure. I am relatively protected from wind so don't find the need to secure all trees. Sometimes simply potting a little deeper is enough to give a secure trunk. I only tie trees that are still wobbly after the repot. The deeper planting will probably assist the new roots where you've exposed cambium. No roots are likely if that area dries out periodically if it's too close to the surface.
Just a word of caution when potting trees deeper. Don't leave it too long or you'll find new roots emerging above your chosen nebari. It's remarkable how quick a high root can spoil the whole structure. By mid summer I would be scraping back the excess soil to make sure there's no unwanted roots starting.

 

[SgtPilko]

Looks like it might be overpotted a bit there. I'd be really careful with watering or put it into something smaller so the roots don't stay too wet. Maybe just a touch bigger than what the air layer was in.

You're correct, probably a bit too big but the akadama and pumice mix is really well-draining, and the larger pot I think will help with stability as the long limbs make it quite top heavy. Ill go easy on watering and leave it mostly to the elements here

 

[SgtPilko]

How did you secure the layer into the pot? A good practise is to secure some wires to the rim of the pot and then secure them loosely (but stick firmly) to the branches/trunks. You want zero movement of the separated layer while the new roots establish themselves.

With the plastic pot you’re using you can just punch some holes through the rim.

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Good idea, i'll check it is nice and sturdy. I used the tie down holes underneath in the usual way as its a bonsai training pot, but tried not to crank it down too strongly

 

[SgtPilko]

More than enough roots there for it to survive so no problem separating that one.
I have no problem with a slightly oversized pot, especially where the soil mix is free draining. Should always monitor soil moisture on recently potted trees to avoid soggy soil until the new roots grow through the new soil and pot.
Tying trees into the pot depends on how stable the tree is and conditions it is likely to endure. I am relatively protected from wind so don't find the need to secure all trees. Sometimes simply potting a little deeper is enough to give a secure trunk. I only tie trees that are still wobbly after the repot. The deeper planting will probably assist the new roots where you've exposed cambium. No roots are likely if that area dries out periodically if it's too close to the surface.
Just a word of caution when potting trees deeper. Don't leave it too long or you'll find new roots emerging above your chosen nebari. It's remarkable how quick a high root can spoil the whole structure. By mid summer I would be scraping back the excess soil to make sure there's no unwanted roots starting.

Good tip, cheers!

 

[giventofly]

Very good tips in the thread

 

[Jphipps]

You can leave the pot on a tilt by putting something like a board under one edge to help with the drainage. It makes the water column more vertical allowing water to pass through the pot quicker. Easy trick which could help the health of this tree as it transitions to filling that pot with roots over the next couple of years. If you do this, I would secure the pot if it feels unstable at all on the tilt.

Really awesome start to a tree here. I have a Mikawa Yatsubusa I'll be taking several air layers off this spring.