Best beginner juniper?

[music~maker]

Thank you for explaining, it helped a lot. I can't always see the tree within but once it's pointed out I can.

I also get that you shouldn't always take the obvious route. My first thought would have been a cascade too, thanks for the reminder to slow down and really look at what you have.

The long path is, in my opinion, best with these. Slowly let them evolve into something and you'll end up with a lot more character.

Here's a thread that has 7 years worth of progression photos for one of mine: https://bonsainut.com/threads/seeking-advice-for-my-juniper.26453/#post-429667

Note how slowly I work it. Most of the work was done when I first put it into the pot, and then I made very strategic moves from there. Mostly I just let it grow. It's getting a bit shaggy now, so I'm probably going to start beating on it again this season. But it basically took me 7 years to arrive at the pre-bonsai material I wanted to work with.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

The other thing to consider about junipers - most of their strength comes from the foliage. You have to be really careful about how much foliage you remove in one go. It is possible to cut them back hard (if their roots are strongly established), but you will often set back the development of the tree by years. It is best to take a slow and steady approach of constantly trimming, wiring, trimming, wiring.

 

[augustine]

In Idaho a good deciduous pick would be Amur Maple, cold hardy and widely used for bonsai.

 

[GailC]

Yeah, I have five amur already and have my eye on a sixth.

I ended up buying a 1 gallon old gold juniper. Not going to be a cascade but at least I got a juniper to learn on. I'll get some pics once I get it cleaned up some.

 

[Vance Wood]

I would very much like a shimpaku but I've not seen one local. I'll look today while I'm at home depot. Usually they have blue rug, old gold, nana and the ones that grow upright like pines.

@Vance Wood
I'm trying to learn what is and isn't good nursery material. Is there something about just wing it's nana that you dislike or?

You almost seem offended that someone would buy a droopy plant then cascade it. I'm trying to understand why, sorry if I'm misunderstanding.

The thing I dislike is the fact that people cannot see any farther than a few droppy branches. There is so much more to bonsai but so few take the time to look. Look at the trunk and the first branch on the left. You could make a pretty decent bonsai out of just that without having to wait for the cascade pads to develop.

 

[just.wing.it]

The thing I dislike is the fact that people cannot see any farther than a few droppy branches. There is so much more to bonsai but so few take the time to look. Look at the trunk and the first branch on the left. You could make a pretty decent bonsai out of just that without having to wait for the cascade pads to develop.

I will look at that, thanks Vance.

 

[Vance Wood]

The thing I dislike is the fact that people cannot see any farther than a few droppy branches. There is so much more to bonsai but so few take the time to look. Look at the trunk and the first branch on the left. You could make a pretty decent bonsai out of just that without having to wait for the cascade pads to develop.

Look at the image here from your first photo: Your trunk is fairly large and tapered for this species of tree. Look at the extended branch on the right you want to cascade; cut it about half the way wire the branches and dress out the pads as they form. Open up the top, eliminate the straight branch on the left and open up the growth on the kind of twisty branch right below the one you just cut off. Put the tree in a bonsai pot and you have a decent bonsai you could sell for spending money or keep it for you collection. So I have a opinion and a philosophy: Usually a design that starts with a cascade in mind from a beginner usually falls off the table pretty quickly. JMHO

 

[GailC]

A bit disappointed in my tree once I got it cleaned up. Still have a plan for it, will bend the back facing top branch into the new apex.
Ended up cutting a bit more then I planned and removed a whole lot more soil from the roots then I should have but it's a healthy tree so hopefully it survives.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

A bit disappointed in my tree once I got it cleaned up. Still have a plan for it, will bend the back facing top branch into the new apex.
Ended up cutting a bit more then I planned and removed a whole lot more soil from the roots then I should have but it's a healthy tree so hopefully it survives.

Welllllll.... If it were my tree I'd keep cutting. But I don't know what condition the roots were in our how weak I think it might be.

 

[GailC]

I was very tempted to keep cutting but I didn't want to over do it and I wasn't sure what else absolutely needs to come off.


Has lots of nice fine roots. Didn't have to cut any, just knocked the dirt out and spread the roots out flat. No big tap root or big twisted ones. I didn't comb all the roots out but the ones I did were nice and straight with a pretty good radial spread. Pretty compact surface roots that I didn't want to disturb too much.

 

[Vance Wood]

A bit disappointed in my tree once I got it cleaned up. Still have a plan for it, will bend the back facing top branch into the new apex.
Ended up cutting a bit more then I planned and removed a whole lot more soil from the roots then I should have but it's a healthy tree so hopefully it survives.

The tree is very young and needs to be allowed to grow out after the major reduction.

 

[GailC]

What about wiring? Should I get the apex in place now or wait till next year?

 

[Vance Wood]

The trouble with both these Junipers, the Procumbens has an abundance of growth and very little secondary branching that is workable and the second Juniper is kind of the same problem initially but being of two different varieties respond differenctl. So for now I think we have to decide which tree we are discussing? The Gold Juniper some sort of Juniperus Chininsis or the Procumbens Juniper Juniperus Procumbens Nana also listed as a form of Chininsis, but so far removed that the similarities seem to be lost.

 

[Vance Wood]

What about wiring? Should I get the apex in place now or wait till next year?

You don't even have a decent trunk line yet. This is kind of like putting a tuxedo on a pig. An apex is determined by the direction of the rest of the tree and by the shape of the trunk. A tree this young has to be shaped from top to bottom and with the Gold Juniper the straight line trunk has to be delt with. You have to understand where the tree is going and, more importantly, how are you going to get it there.

Basically both these trees are nothing more than raw material even after pruning and shaping. Sorry, but I am not going to lie to either of you. That 's OK but no instant bonsai here, sometimes that's a fact of life. Put the trees aside and allow them to grow out and allow yourselves to grow out in understanding and vision. This stuff does not happen over night. Sometimes you have to learn it's time to move on for a while on one particular project. Sometimes it is necessary for a tree to grow through the valley of Ugliness before it becomes beautiful. The tree will grow but you will mature in your vision. At some point your vision will catch up with the trees growth if you give yourself time to learn what you are doing. Many people will avoid this step and proceed straight out and buy good quality bonsai already finished or well on their way. Then all you have to do is learn how to keep them alive ------!?

 

[Woody Carverton]

A bit disappointed in my tree once I got it cleaned up. Still have a plan for it, will bend the back facing top branch into the new apex.
Ended up cutting a bit more then I planned and removed a whole lot more soil from the roots then I should have but it's a healthy tree so hopefully it survives.

Love the nail polish in that second pic. They should have called it Juniper green

Beautiful tree none the less. I see a lot of potential in the next year or two.

 

[just.wing.it]

The trouble with both these Junipers, the Procumbens has an abundance of growth and very little secondary branching that is workable and the second Juniper is kind of the same problem initially but being of two different varieties respond differenctl. So for now I think we have to decide which tree we are discussing? The Gold Juniper some sort of Juniperus Chininsis or the Procumbens Juniper Juniperus Procumbens Nana also listed as a form of Chininsis, but so far removed that the similarities seem to be lost.

She's talking about the Gold, Vance. I was talking about the procumbens....and I know there is nothing there to work with as far as secondary branching...
That's why it's in some good bonsai soil, in a nice terracotta flower pot for the next several years to grow....
I'd put it in the ground if I had a good spot, but the flower pot will do.

 

[GailC]

Love the nail polish in that second pic. They should have called it Juniper green

Beautiful tree none the less. I see a lot of potential in the next year or two.

Ha, its called lucky charming but I like juniper green better

This is kind of what I have envisioned, excuse the terrible drawing.

@Vance Wood I'm speaking about the old gold since that one is mine. Wasn't sure if I should get the apex in a more vertical position or not. Right now, its coming off the tree at a pretty steep angle.

 

[defra]

Let it recover for now is my advice
I did a similair old gold some time ago and mosth of the tree is brown now @sorce will be happy about it tough cus he liked mybackup branch/plan more than the original plan lol

Heres mine

https://bonsainut.com/threads/oops.25582/#post-408108

I also got a procumbens nana planted it in the ground and wired a branch upwards to let it grow a few years first !

 

[petegreg]

Ha, and I bought one cascading chinese juni starter tree last week. Just because it was the cheapest one and I liked the trunk line for shohin. Repotted, tilted, cascading part will be jined and a part of it used for propagation.
...the picture is from eshop, probably one year old, the tree looks waaay better.

 

[GGB]

@GailC wish you lived closer, I have a twin trunk shimpaku with perfect nebari that I don't want. I'd sell it to you for 10 bucks. I have never shipped a bonsai tree and to be honest I don't ven want to try