Benichidori softwood propagation

[Canada Bonsai]

Just a follow-up question - I understand your approach is driven by maximizing volume of individual cuttings*, but if you were more interested in maximizing the strength of the individual cuttings (even if it meant fewer total cuttings) would you consider taking cuttings that are 2 or 3 nodes instead of a single node?

Would the cutting have more strength and momentum to grow forward and faster if it had more nodes?

Good question - it's a hard one to answer, though!

I have done side-by-side studies with a few Acer palmatum different cultivars and a few others species like Chinese Elms, Prunus mume, and Callicarpa to name a few, and I never noticed any differences in terms of rooting success-rate or growth post-rooting. That said, since before I can remember I have been working in environments where I was controlling water, air flow, humidity, etc. very closely.

I suppose that if some variable in your propagation set-up was lacking and this happened to be made up for by whatever it is that some extra length in your cutting might bring to the table, then perhaps it could be helpful in that circumstance. If this sounds vague it is my intention that it be so because it's not entirely clear to me what the extra length or extra internode does to benefit the cutting (scientifically I mean, because its certainly easy to speculate).

 

[leatherback]

Good question - it's a hard one to answer, though!

agreed: I have taken one-node, two-node and three-node cuttings from the same plant. I have not seen clear differences between them. But never done a full comparison trial.

 

[MrBonsai19]

Good question - it's a hard one to answer, though!

I have done side-by-side studies with a few Acer palmatum different cultivars and a few others species like Chinese Elms, Prunus mume, and Callicarpa to name a few, and I never noticed any differences in terms of rooting success-rate or growth post-rooting. That said, since before I can remember I have been working in environments where I was controlling water, air flow, humidity, etc. very closely.

I suppose that if some variable in your propagation set-up was lacking and this happened to be made up for by whatever it is that some extra length in your cutting might bring to the table, then perhaps it could be helpful in that circumstance. If this sounds vague it is my intention that it be so because it's not entirely clear to me what the extra length or extra internode does to benefit the cutting (scientifically I mean, because its certainly easy to speculate).

thanks for the feedback ! maybe i will try some informal testing myself on that point. its hard to logic my way out of the idea that "more plant tissue = more stored sugars = more roots" etc but I also appreciate that there could be a lot of reasons why it wouldn't work that way. Lack of roots might make it harder for sap to flow and nutrients to move anywhere at all and the only thing that immediately contributes to root development could be what is in the immediate vicinity of the cut site + hormones.

 

[clem]

thanks for the feedback ! maybe i will try some informal testing myself on that point. its hard to logic my way out of the idea that "more plant tissue = more stored sugars = more roots" etc but I also appreciate that there could be a lot of reasons why it wouldn't work that way. Lack of roots might make it harder for sap to flow and nutrients to move anywhere at all and the only thing that immediately contributes to root development could be what is in the immediate vicinity of the cut site + hormones.

More plant tissue (without any roots) also means more evapotranspiration and faster dehydration, or even death if we reason logically. So a cutting with 2 leaves has -logically- a better chance of surviving for a longer time without roots than with 4 or 6 leaves.

That said, the nurseryman specialist in cuttings, from whom I went to buy my cuttings, usually kept 4 to 6 leaves.. but he had a system of regular and frequent misting to hydrate the cuttings until they produced roots. ->

 

[Ninecloud]

agreed: I have taken one-node, two-node and three-node cuttings from the same plant. I have not seen clear differences between them. But never done a full comparison trial.

same same, these are 2-4 nodes. Though i was at 100% success rate this year, but one actually didn't make it out of like 10. This is "Ikandi" and "Shin Hikasa" for anyone who might be wondering. yeah... i use grodan gro-blocks now - you can thank cmeg1 fer that... strike rates just too good, but pH is something to worry about. Cheers and good luck! I have a Beni chidori that was aeration propagator grown as well, by a friend.

 

[Ninecloud]

you were right! They died.

I tried again with a aeroponic propagator.

How does it look this time? Should I reduce leafmass like with the “hagiri” tecnique?

Using clonex rooting hormone gel and clonex pro start. Temperature around 20-23 degrees.

Benichidori and deshojo cuttings

although Clonex is waterproof, ive had much more success with more cultivars with double the IBA percentage. i use Hormex number 8 at .8 IBA, and clonex is .4 at most i believe.

 

[Noulinator]

Here is an update,
So far 16 cuttings have rooted.

The roots are really long and lack fine root ramification.

How should I proceed from here? Should I cut back the roots to shorten it and encourage new side growth?

 

[clem]

Here is an update,
So far 16 cuttings have rooted.

The roots are really long and lack fine root ramification.

How should I proceed from here? Should I cut back the roots to shorten it and encourage new side growth?

The deshojo seems to produce roots more easily than the Beni chidori since all the deshojo cuttings survived/took! As for the course of action, for me, the priority is the survival of the cuttings, which are fragile....
There are no instructions provided with your aeroponic propagator, to know how to proceed step by step?

 

[resilience]

although Clonex is waterproof, ive had much more success with more cultivars with double the IBA percentage. i use Hormex number 8 at .8 IBA, and clonex is .4 at most i believe.

Out of curiosity why not the 16? I may be confusing which product for which plant. I'm focusing more on Elms and Oaks and that for air layering mature branches. I appreciate the context here is Maple.

I'm a rank beginner so I appreciate that background thoughts.

 

[Ninecloud]

Out of curiosity why not the 16? I may be confusing which product for which plant. I'm focusing more on Elms and Oaks and that for air layering mature branches. I appreciate the context here is Maple.

I'm a rank beginner so I appreciate that background thoughts.

Indole-3-butyric acid (IBA) is a synthetic auxin commonly used to stimulate root formation in plant cuttings. While effective at appropriate concentrations, applying IBA at excessively high levels can inhibit or entirely prevent rooting. The main reasons are:

1. Hormonal Inhibition of Root Formation
High concentrations of auxins like IBA can suppress rather than promote root development. Excess auxin may stimulate callus formation or necrosis rather than proper adventitious root initiation.

Source: Hartmann and Kester’s Plant Propagation: Principles and Practices (widely used academic textbook in horticulture education)

“High auxin concentrations can cause excessive callus formation or be inhibitory to rooting entirely, particularly in sensitive species.”
– Hartmann, Hudson T., et al., Plant Propagation: Principles and Practices, 9th edition

2. Tissue Toxicity and Cellular Damage
Over-application of IBA can lead to toxicity, particularly in soft or herbaceous tissues. This may result in:

Tissue blackening or rotting

Desiccation

Complete failure to root

Source: University of Florida IFAS Extension

HS1257/HS1257: Techniques for Melon Grafting

A UF/IFAS numbered Fact Sheet. in support of UF/IFAS Extension program: Plant Systems

edis.ifas.ufl.edu

“High concentrations of auxins may inhibit rooting or cause damage to the cutting tissue, particularly in softwood or herbaceous species.”
– UF/IFAS Extension, HS1257

3. Species-Specific Sensitivity
Different plant species and types of cuttings (softwood, semi-hardwood, hardwood) require different IBA concentrations. Applying an inappropriate concentration can reduce success rates.

Source: North Carolina State University Extension

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/plant-propagation-by-leaf-stem-and-root-cuttings-instructions-for-the-home-gardener

“Too strong a rooting hormone can damage cuttings instead of helping them. Soft cuttings require much lower concentrations than woody ones.”

4. Disruption of Natural Hormonal Balance
Plants require a balance of hormones (including auxins and cytokinins) for coordinated growth. High IBA concentrations can disrupt this balance, leading to malformed roots or suppression of shoot growth.

Source: Purdue University Extension

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/HO/HO-37-W.pdf

“While auxins like IBA are essential for rooting, too much can overwhelm the cutting’s physiology and suppress or distort root development.”

Summary
Using too high a percentage of IBA in rooting hormone can:

Inhibit root formation by overwhelming plant hormonal systems

Cause tissue toxicity or necrosis

Result in unbalanced or malformed growth

Reduce overall propagation success, especially in sensitive plant species

Using species-appropriate concentrations and avoiding excess is critical for successful rooting.

 

[Ninecloud]

Out of curiosity why not the 16? I may be confusing which product for which plant. I'm focusing more on Elms and Oaks and that for air layering mature branches. I appreciate the context here is Maple.

I'm a rank beginner so I appreciate that background thoughts.

Most hardwood deciduous are .8 but check the hormex list here to be sure. https://hormex.com/pages/rooting-po...FjqqRxl9s0bwlokWd8GFx9p-H_PSE0-BoCACMQAvD_BwE

 

[resilience]

Indole-3-butyric acid (IBA) is a synthetic auxin commonly used to stimulate root formation in plant cuttings. While effective at appropriate concentrations, applying IBA at excessively high levels can inhibit or entirely prevent rooting. The main reasons are:

1. Hormonal Inhibition of Root Formation
High concentrations of auxins like IBA can suppress rather than promote root development. Excess auxin may stimulate callus formation or necrosis rather than proper adventitious root initiation.

Source: Hartmann and Kester’s Plant Propagation: Principles and Practices (widely used academic textbook in horticulture education)

“High auxin concentrations can cause excessive callus formation or be inhibitory to rooting entirely, particularly in sensitive species.”
– Hartmann, Hudson T., et al., Plant Propagation: Principles and Practices, 9th edition

2. Tissue Toxicity and Cellular Damage
Over-application of IBA can lead to toxicity, particularly in soft or herbaceous tissues. This may result in:

Tissue blackening or rotting

Desiccation

Complete failure to root

Source: University of Florida IFAS Extension

HS1257/HS1257: Techniques for Melon Grafting

A UF/IFAS numbered Fact Sheet. in support of UF/IFAS Extension program: Plant Systems

edis.ifas.ufl.edu

“High concentrations of auxins may inhibit rooting or cause damage to the cutting tissue, particularly in softwood or herbaceous species.”
– UF/IFAS Extension, HS1257

3. Species-Specific Sensitivity
Different plant species and types of cuttings (softwood, semi-hardwood, hardwood) require different IBA concentrations. Applying an inappropriate concentration can reduce success rates.

Source: North Carolina State University Extension

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/plant-propagation-by-leaf-stem-and-root-cuttings-instructions-for-the-home-gardener

“Too strong a rooting hormone can damage cuttings instead of helping them. Soft cuttings require much lower concentrations than woody ones.”

4. Disruption of Natural Hormonal Balance
Plants require a balance of hormones (including auxins and cytokinins) for coordinated growth. High IBA concentrations can disrupt this balance, leading to malformed roots or suppression of shoot growth.

Source: Purdue University Extension

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/HO/HO-37-W.pdf

“While auxins like IBA are essential for rooting, too much can overwhelm the cutting’s physiology and suppress or distort root development.”

Summary
Using too high a percentage of IBA in rooting hormone can:

Inhibit root formation by overwhelming plant hormonal systems

Cause tissue toxicity or necrosis

Result in unbalanced or malformed growth

Reduce overall propagation success, especially in sensitive plant species

Using species-appropriate concentrations and avoiding excess is critical for successful rooting.

That was a fantastic explanation! Thank you.