Azaleas acquired, tips tricks and general info about them appreciated!!

[19Mateo83]

 

[hardtimes]

I got the same kind some time ago but they all died when I separated them. I went and got me a satsuki from a bonsai nursery after

 

[outdoormarky]

Hello!
I am new. So I don't have the experience, but i do listen, absorb well, and I know a bit about Utah, generally. First, if you want to keep them alive, don't plant them in the ground in Utah. Our soils are stupid alkaline. Most nurseries here don't even sell them because of it. They'll just slowly fade away before giving up the ghost. And the river water will be alkaline too, sorry. I have a water distiller. It won't keep up with summer watering on everything. But It'll be enough to take care of my azalea for sure.

I'm just getting into azaleas, so I'm currently on an azalea information binge. I just got 2 books with 2 more on the way. I'd be more than happy to share them. I'm just 15ish mins away from you. But I'll need a security deposit, cause out of print books ain't cheap. And I've got plenty of help from these forums. I'm planning on getting an azalea in May when the cultivar I've researched will be available. But I've got a nursery here that loves a challenge, so they may find it earlier for me. It's a Ben Morrison Azalea. Goes down to 5a. I'm not sure how well they're suited for bonsai, but they're hardy enough for my place and they're absolutely gorgeous!!! The one's you got, though? If they are Belgian indica like Glaucus said, (cause I don't know), you'll have to do some more intense over wintering stuff. Here's a great guide for over wintering with a focus on azaleas. https://www.bonsainut.com/resources...ry-planning-and-case-studies-azalea-focus.49/ There are a bunch of cold hardy azaleas that have been bred. Some go as low as 3a!! Not sure how they'll do for bonsai, but it's cool, none the less.

Soil! Kanuma is it. Now, whether to put in some other water retaining media into the mix due to the stupid, dry heat here in the summer? I'm not sure yet. Again, I'm in my own research phase. But there are tons of people who use 100% kanuma.

Thus concludes my knowledge of Utah mixed with what I've researched about azaleas. I'm more than happy to get together and try some experiments with you. I mean, you ARE a doctor, after all. Good luck!!

 

[outdoormarky]

Two threads that I just read or found. Tons of great info on bnut! I know there are a lot more. Read read read

When to pot azaleas in kanuma?

Perhaps a dumb question, but I have several azaleas that I'm almost ready to pull from the ground to start training in pots and I'm wondering if they should be potted in kanuma after growing in the ground for several years or if I should continue growing them in some kind of organic compost...

www.bonsainut.com

Azalea Wars 1 - Waterwashing Roots - Satsuki and other Azaleas - From an Inquisitive person

Gosh, I’m always mystified with the different information I get from various sources, online, books by “experts” articles written by practitioners. For only one example, well two, and not to take this as a knock please, it’s just an example of the confusion I have faced in the past five years...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[doc spring _work]

Hello!
I am new. So I don't have the experience, but i do listen, absorb well, and I know a bit about Utah, generally. First, if you want to keep them alive, don't plant them in the ground in Utah. Our soils are stupid alkaline. Most nurseries here don't even sell them because of it. They'll just slowly fade away before giving up the ghost. And the river water will be alkaline too, sorry. I have a water distiller. It won't keep up with summer watering on everything. But It'll be enough to take care of my azalea for sure.

I'm just getting into azaleas, so I'm currently on an azalea information binge. I just got 2 books with 2 more on the way. I'd be more than happy to share them. I'm just 15ish mins away from you. But I'll need a security deposit, cause out of print books ain't cheap. And I've got plenty of help from these forums. I'm planning on getting an azalea in May when the cultivar I've researched will be available. But I've got a nursery here that loves a challenge, so they may find it earlier for me. It's a Ben Morrison Azalea. Goes down to 5a. I'm not sure how well they're suited for bonsai, but they're hardy enough for my place and they're absolutely gorgeous!!! The one's you got, though? If they are Belgian indica like Glaucus said, (cause I don't know), you'll have to do some more intense over wintering stuff. Here's a great guide for over wintering with a focus on azaleas. https://www.bonsainut.com/resources...ry-planning-and-case-studies-azalea-focus.49/ There are a bunch of cold hardy azaleas that have been bred. Some go as low as 3a!! Not sure how they'll do for bonsai, but it's cool, none the less.

Soil! Kanuma is it. Now, whether to put in some other water retaining media into the mix due to the stupid, dry heat here in the summer? I'm not sure yet. Again, I'm in my own research phase. But there are tons of people who use 100% kanuma.

Thus concludes my knowledge of Utah mixed with what I've researched about azaleas. I'm more than happy to get together and try some experiments with you. I mean, you ARE a doctor, after all. Good luck!!

I do know the valley nursery nearby sells a few different varieties of azalea so if I get bold enough I may go figure out what would work best for our environment, I'm certain the people at nursery know which varieties work well here given the nursery has been open so long I'll look into the cultivars they offer before diving into that however


Really should have done more research before diving into the tree!

 

[leatherback]

Really should have done more research before diving into the tree!

yhink twice, buy once. unless you have too much money!

 

[doc spring _work]

yhink twice, buy once. unless you have too much money!

I'm certainly far too impulsive!
I just saw the gorgeous plants and went to have a look thinking them roses, when I saw they where azaleas I took a minute to look at their trunks and consider my past mistakes by choosing difficult trees (the Sequoia incident)....

I recalled hearing that azaleas where a good beginner bonsai, I had no idea they where so picky especially given they where being sold at a generic grocery store.

Research before purchasing my plants such an obvious step... I am very much appreciating all the advice on this! Going to have to research ways to purify water for azaleas as that seems to be my primary obstacle!

 

[penumbra]

I got the same kind some time ago but they all died when I separated them. I went and got me a satsuki from a bonsai nursery after

I pot two pots that I separated into 6 azaleas and they all did fine. I still have three from the original pot and they are doing very well. The others I gave away and don't know about. I had mentioned before that I kept them in a cold frame.

 

[doc spring _work]

I pot two pots that I separated into 6 azaleas and they all did fine. I still have three from the original pot and they are doing very well. The others I gave away and don't know about. I had mentioned before that I kept them in a cold frame.

I really outta build a small greenhouse ... Seems like a wise investment

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Azaleas aren’t actually picky, they merely require a bit different suite of knowledge the other trees similar to quince.

Also the knowledge can be less clear and harder to come by compared to many other trees. Part of the issue is historical and cultural.

The rest has to do with most mainline bonsai professionals just really not knowing specific horticultural and pruning techniques and timing well as they were brought up studying trees that can bring high value quickly to a business... witness how the Japanese bonsai artist demand for yamadori stripped the wild and alpine areas of of ‘high value’ trees. So much so that these areas were virtually stripped of the best trees and the second best before the Japanese government stepped in and banned yamadori collecting. The same thing has been occurring in the US and Europe, and picking up pace ever since bonsai gained popularity.

Also azaleas have many different cultivars and hybrids, likely up to ten thousand over the years, with three basic groups of trees that have a slightly bit divergent winter and repotting timing needs. Most other trees worked in bonsai have relatively few cultivars unless one considers fruit bearing trees, crabapple, apple, cherry, etc and maples, all of which have similar needs within a group.

In addition climate change has changed timing and summers/winter needs over the years.

There are two keystone books I recommend to beginners, besides the two references and a number of threads posted here. Highly suggest one dive into the BN references and threads.

For outside references, one is relatively easy and cheap to obtain. Floral Treasures of Japan by Alexander Kennedy The other is easy yet more pricey as it’s newer, Satsuki Bonsai by Janine Droste. A third is more rare, Bonsai Techniques for Satsuki by Naka, Ota and Rokkaku. This is a really good book as it gives a number of examples of different styling techniques. Perhaps the only one. There are others, but these are my go to books.

Finally @Glaucus, @Bob Hunter, @Carol 83, @Cadillactaste @Mellow Mullet and @Pitoon as well as a number of others on BN, besides myself, have larger amounts of azaleas, especially Satsuki cultivars.

Would read the wintering over guide BN resource soon.

Gotta go. Lots of repotting to do and long days in the next weeks ahead.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Cadillactaste]

I'll say this. I had a satsuki that was cold hardy to occasionally hitting teens and it was fine. My neagari...I keep my controlled greenhouse no cooler than 32F now in winter. As it is less cold hardy. So they vary in hardiness.

Azalea...either you do good with them. Or you can't keep them alive. I know a seasoned artist who can't grow them. Yet has no trouble with anything else.

Mellow Mullet/John he's got a magic touch with them. So maybe he can share secrets.

 

[Gabler]

I really outta build a small greenhouse ... Seems like a wise investment

If you want to keep azaleas, then you might find you'll need a greenhouse, but first consider the option of growing more native and invasive species. If a species thrives in your area, then it probably won't require any special treatment.

I'm in zone 7 with a coastal climate, so it's a bit different from Utah, but I just set my native and invasive trees on the ground in the winter, and I don't have trouble with the cold. My Japanese maples, however, need some extra attention in the spring, since they tend to wake up too early.

 

[doc spring _work]

Azaleas aren’t actually picky, they merely require a bit different suite of knowledge the other trees similar to quince.

Also the knowledge can be less clear and harder to come by compared to many other trees. Part of the issue is historical and cultural.

The rest has to do with most mainline bonsai professionals just really not knowing specific horticultural and pruning techniques and timing well as they were brought up studying trees that can bring high value quickly to a business... witness how the Japanese bonsai artist demand for yamadori stripped the wild and alpine areas of of ‘high value’ trees. So much so that these areas were virtually stripped of the best trees and the second best before the Japanese government stepped in and banned yamadori collecting. The same thing has been occurring in the US and Europe, and picking up pace ever since bonsai gained popularity.

Also azaleas have many different cultivars and hybrids, likely up to ten thousand over the years, with three basic groups of trees that have a slightly bit divergent winter and repotting timing needs. Most other trees worked in bonsai have relatively few cultivars unless one considers fruit bearing trees, crabapple, apple, cherry, etc and maples, all of which have similar needs within a group.

In addition climate change has changed timing and summers/winter needs over the years.

There are two keystone books I recommend to beginners, besides the two references and a number of threads posted here. Highly suggest one dive into the BN references and threads.

For outside references, one is relatively easy and cheap to obtain. Floral Treasures of Japan by Alexander Kennedy The other is easy yet more pricey as it’s newer, Satsuki Bonsai by Janine Droste. A third is more rare, Bonsai Techniques for Satsuki by Naka, Ota and Rokkaku. This is a really good book as it gives a number of examples of different styling techniques. Perhaps the only one. There are others, but these are my go to books.

Finally @Glaucus, @Bob Hunter, @Carol 83, @Cadillactaste @Mellow Mullet and @Pitoon as well as a number of others on BN, besides myself, have larger amounts of azaleas, especially Satsuki cultivars.

Would read the wintering over guide BN resource soon.

Gotta go. Lots of repotting to do and long days in the next weeks ahead.

cheers
DSD sends

Thank you so much DSD,

I'm still very much trying to Learn how to navigate this form!


I'll see if I can't find some PDF copies of these books!

I certainly face plenty of challenges hopping into this art at my age, stability has yet to be achieved but I love trees and I find this art form is the most intimate way to connect to them, I know I have a long road ahead of me but If I can set myself up for the future I'll be able to achieve a lot!

I should have 40 years I can spend developing trees and still have many many more years for developing them... The challenge is learning to be patient And discarding my pride so I may learn the lessons now while they hurt much much less.


I am so very very grateful to have such a knowledgeable community to guide me!

I'm thinking about getting a mollis/azalea hybrid (Rhododendrom x obtusum) with red flowers they have a very wide growth range and seem to lime soils that fit well with bonsai.

If anyone has recommendations for tools with the water it would be fantastic (filters distillers ect,) everything around my area is fairly alkali in nature and my tap water is very hard with their water...

I intend to purchase a good kanuma soil, I need to consider something to help with water retention (especially here in Utah) I've been told peat moss is a bad choice so perhaps I should look into finding live moss? Or some other organic material... Not fully certain, seen a lot of different soil mixes for these so far..

 

[doc spring _work]

If you want to keep azaleas, then you might find you'll need a greenhouse, but first consider the option of growing more native and invasive species. If a species thrives in your area, then it probably won't require any special treatment.

I'm in zone 7 with a coastal climate, so it's a bit different from Utah, but I just set my native and invasive trees on the ground in the winter, and I don't have trouble with the cold. My Japanese maples, however, need some extra attention in the spring, since they tend to wake up too early.

I have considered picking up some of the sage brush that grows everywhere around here, it's a fantastic plant but they have incredibly deep roots even as tiny ones.

I did pick up three invasives To.practice techniques with (Sumacs) Although they aren't very responsive to any particular method it has shown me a few things..

Unfortunately Utah is such a wild landscape that every 100 ft the soil and requirements tend to change, from pure desert, to salt flat, to marsh, to mountainous.. im fortunate in that I live by the mountains however that does mean my wind and weather changes to be insane almost always... Not necessarily extreme but Utah is known to almost always be "summer in the sun and winter in the shade"

Although I might be wrong I'm pretty sure almost all plants here are some sort of extremophile.. the only exception to this is plants that have grown far too old to dig up and require hours of hiking to reach (I sustained a foot injury in BMT im still recovering from) or the quaking aspen

I do want to make an Aspen forest as that's one of the signature things these trees do... However I want to learn before I dive into making a large raft and destroying a tree!

Sorry didn't mean to rant! This state just drives me nutty!!!

But I really love the look of the azalea as it is naturally, as opposed to many evergreen pines (besides the bald cypress and Sequoia) which I find lovely in nature but desire to see sculpted different when I get my hands on them.. I find broad leafs calling to me and I believe an azalea is a great place to start (I could be sorely mistaken as i was with my poor poor Sequoia.)

 

[Gabler]

I find broad leafs calling to me

I'd bet you can find species of maple or oak that can handle your climate, too, if you want to diversify.

 

[crab apple]

Here's my $10 Azaleas from Walmarts last year. Bought one pot and seperated them into 4 different plants, They're all doing well dispite all being planted in a differnt type of soil, everything from potting soil to Kanuma. They love it here in Florida. Make it easy on yourself and stick to plants that want to live where you live, western stuff.

 

[doc spring _work]

I'd bet you can find species of maple or oak that can handle your climate, too, if you want to diversify.

If you recall just recently I went and collected some scrub oak cuttings at your request to see if cuttings where possible. Those things aren't really picky and they are everywhere on the mountain.

When I went up to get a cutting I actually had myself thinking I outta grab a whole one!
The oaks aren't perfect and it wouldn't be easy to grab one given they live in the rocks but hell if that's what's gotta happen for me to learn it might just happen this year lol

 

[doc spring _work]

Here's my $10 Azaleas from Walmarts last year. Bought one pot and seperated them into 4 different plants, They're all doing well dispite all being planted in a differnt type of soil, everything from potting soil to Kanuma. They love it here in Florida. Make it easy on yourself and stick to plants that want to live where you live, western stuff.

It's unfortunate that everything I desire doesn't grow here...

Not truly a native to this place and was raised with both parents in the military that let me experience a lot of the USA... And I certainly have more love for places that aren't here... But here's where I can currently survive so ill just have to struggle.. but Florida does well for azalea hm?

What part? Everglades, city or more beach front?

 

[Pitoon]

Unless you like tropicals caring for Belgian indica's will be very similar during the winter to keep it alive.

Get something that can withstand your temps, there's plenty of nice hybrids out there bred to take on colder weather if you plan to plant it in the ground.

 

[doc spring _work]

Unless you like tropicals caring for Belgian indica's will be very similar during the winter to keep it alive.

Get something that can withstand your temps, there's plenty of nice hybrids out there bred to take on colder weather if you plan to plant it in the ground.

Rhododendrom x obtusum, I understand these first ones where probably a mistake. This hybrid is rated well for my climate and isn't too expensive, the arbor day foundation sells them so that'll probably be what ends up in the ground.

The little fellas might get a tiny green house, I'll have to see how much it would be to build but given all the wasted wood around here I should be able to build one on the cheap.