Are there enough roots on this layer?

[ysrgrathe]

Are there enough roots here to separate? The tree is getting a bit sunburned and I'm not sure I can move it without damaging the layer, so I'm wondering if I should just remove it now. I have a mist system to move it to.

I'm somewhat new to layering; the first year, none of my layers overwintered successfully. Last year it was more like 67%. Hopefully I'll do better this time.

 

[Sn0W]

I cannot tell you as I have no experience however I believe the first question you'll be asked is what kind of maple is it?

 

[ysrgrathe]

A.p. 'Summer Gold'

 

[coh]

I always err on the side of caution with layers, i.e. if you're not sure, wait for more roots.

If the mother tree is potted, why can't you move it without damaging the layer?

 

[ysrgrathe]

This layer is pretty high up in the tree on a narrow branch and I've stabilized it with a stake -- I've had problems in the past where the weight of the layering medium eventually broke these small branches (it's windy here!). So, it's a bit precarious to try to take apart, move, and set up somewhere else. I made the layer about 13 weeks ago.

 

[cbroad]

The amount of roots and the thickness of them seems pretty good, but I think it is relative to the amount of foliage on the actual layer.

Do you think the new roots could support the leaves? Got any pictures of the top portion of the layer?

 

[just.wing.it]

What are your thoughts on trimming branches of a layer once removed???

 

[BrianBay9]

If mine I would separate it, if you're worried about it's position on the tree and being able to support it.

 

[cbroad]

What are your thoughts on trimming branches of a layer once removed???

My thoughts?

 

[just.wing.it]

My thoughts?

Yeah, or any reader's thoughts!

 

[cbroad]

Hahaha wasn't sure

I think it could be a balancing act, just enough foliage to drive photosynthesis but not too much to where the roots can't keep up with transpiration loss.

My avatar (winged elm air layer) was an eight foot tall trunk that had around a four foot spread of branches, so I knew that little bag couldn't have enough roots to support everything. I had to cut some of it, but wasn't sure how much to leave so I had to guess...

I hear people say to not cut anything off, but that could be devastating to the layer so I think it all depends. Ysrgrathe's stem doesn't look too large so I doubt there's a huge amount of foliage on it, so in my opinion he would probably be fine to sever it.

 

[cbroad]

I have a big Emperor 1 j.m. that's going into it's third summer after starting a layer, it finally put out roots last fall and when it's ready I'm really going to have to guess how much foliage to leave on; it's probably a 2.5-3" diameter trunk with a canopy of 4-5'...

 

[Dav4]

Foliage fuels root growth, so I wouldn’t reduce the canopy unless there was a very clear imbalance. I’d separate the layer now and place in an area protected from wind and having only morning sun or all day dappled shade. It’s very important to leave the tree alone for the rest of the year.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I’d probably wait a few more weeks until the roots start to turn brown and firm up a little, but I get conservative when I start investing time in something like this because I HATE starting over!

 

[ysrgrathe]

Thanks for all the thoughts folks -- really appreciate it! I have some other layers that are farther along (roots turning brown and starting to lignify) so that's a good tip Brian. The one that is farthest along is A.p. 'Kamagata', makes sense that it would be a greenleaf cultivar.

Here is a shot showing the foliage.

 

[Cable]

Wat do you think is the reason your layers haven't been surviving the winter? Not enough protection?

 

[ysrgrathe]

I am not sure. I don't think it is protection -- I kept them in a cold garage. They may have gotten too desiccated. The cambium was green under the bark, but some just didn't leaf out.

 

[discusmike]

I think you should wait,the bag should be filled with roots,why chance it?

 

[coh]

I think it was Bill Valavanis who said - when the roots fill the bag, he adds more sphagnum and then wraps it back up and waits for roots to fill the additional space.

 

[Dav4]

I am not sure. I don't think it is protection -- I kept them in a cold garage. They may have gotten too desiccated. The cambium was green under the bark, but some just didn't leaf out.

You live in usda zone 9 CA, right? I wouldn't think you'd need any protection, even for relatively newly separated layers. Every layer I've ever done has frozen solid within 6 months of being separated... never lost one to winter cold. At most, I'd put them on the ground, maybe with some mulch around the pots.