Apricot "Ume"

[Steven1969s]

Hello everyone.
I have this old Apricot "Ume" that I would like to cut back to the trunk (next spring).
I've seen it done on plum trees but not Apricot.
Can I safely cut back to the trunk and get new growth?
I would like to do this because the trees branches are too fragile to wire and would like to grow it more in bonsai style.
Newer branches would be easier to manipulate with wire.
Thanks,
Steve

 

[Jrmcmich]

Cool tree. Sure others with more knowledge will chime in but can’t you do some clip amd grow of branches? That would add movement without wire. Not sure of that species tendency but seems like some trees more brittle and clip and grow works better. Just a thought

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

My experience with old Ume is that they don’t reliably back-bud on the trunk. Toward the end of summer, you could cut it back to 1-2nodes per branch and see if you can encourage a little back-budding, but more likely you’ll need to graft to push growth back closer to the trunk.

 

[vancehanna]

Ume is usually referring to Plum 梅
as apurikotto would be the apricot アプリコット
Very lovely trunk by the way!!
The branches have character that is lost in the process of new shoots... I'd rethink the design just a bit as well as leaf size when styled so small. Sure one does leaf reduction as rule by cutting all for regrowth to smaller size however the answer remains: why not work with the branches you have by slowly bending and pruning over time? (just sayin...)

 

[badatusernames]

Ume is usually referring to Plum 梅
as apurikotto would be the apricot アプリコット
Very lovely trunk by the way!!
The branches have character that is lost in the process of new shoots... I'd rethink the design just a bit as well as leaf size when styled so small. Sure one does leaf reduction as rule by cutting all for regrowth to smaller size however the answer remains: why not work with the branches you have by slowly bending and pruning over time? (just sayin...)

Curious to hear your take - looking at the branches, they seem too think to bend and maybe too old to back bud? You have more experience than I for sure and I want to keep learning about this species.

The question I have is where are you finding ume like that

 

[Steven1969s]

Curious to hear your take - looking at the branches, they seem too think to bend and maybe too old to back bud? You have more experience than I for sure and I want to keep learning about this species.

The question I have is where are you finding ume like that

I got this tree as part of a collection that I bought years ago.
Thanks.

 

[vancehanna]

Simply by trimming back the length of the current branches and somewhat slowly bending (wired in place) I don't see any reason why they would not back bud.
Check to see if it is root bound and if so I'd (Spring time prior to bud break repot). Feed well over the Season! I don't know if you know the Valvanis technique of super fertilization. Many years back he mentioned in one of his magazine article about his process of such. I pretty much employ his methods every watering!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Simply by trimming back the length of the current branches and somewhat slowly bending (wired in place) I don't see any reason why they would not back bud.
Check to see if it is root bound and if so I'd (Spring time prior to bud break repot). Feed well over the Season! I don't know if you know the Valvanis technique of super fertilization. Many years back he mentioned in one of his magazine article about his process of such. I pretty much employ his methods every watering!

They don’t backbud well, oftentimes buds are “blind” or not viable, and branches tend to be brittle and snap while wiring.

 

[vancehanna]

Simply not my experience!

 

[KikurageOtomo]

Bjorn has a video on partial outer-canopial defoliation for Mume. To my knowledge this is one of the better ways to encourage back-budding on older branching. Your other option is grafting material to the interior portion of branches, personally I'd resort to this as a fall back if defoliation fails.

As Bjorn is quite familiar with a particularity notable Mume collector (Nobuyuki Yanai), I'd be quite surprised if he was ill informed.

Ume is usually referring to Plum 梅
as apurikotto would be the apricot アプリコット

And, uh, no. Plum and Apricot are the same genus. If you wanted to get extremely technical, Mume are closer related to Apricot than they are to Plum, but ultimately its a very arbitrary distinction when it has its own name. This is especially silly as the 'Chojubai' Quince is "Longevity Plum"... not a plum in the least, not even the same genus!

Simply not my experience!

I'm also curious about this. Have you worked on any Mume that are several decades old? Leggy branches is a sign of old age for Mume. Branches are absolutely very brittle, the saving grace being its ability to retain those damaged branches, perhaps out of spite for heavy handed bonsai artists.

 

[KikurageOtomo]

Bjorn has a video on partial outer-canopial defoliation

This was supposed to be inner! Though that will be evident if you do your homework and watch the video, haha.

 

[Steven1969s]

They don’t backbud well, oftentimes buds are “blind” or not viable, and branches tend to be brittle and snap while wiring.

Yes. This is my experience with this species.

 

[Steven1969s]

My other option was doing some thread grafting as I have many 2 and 3 year old seedlings that I got from this same tree.

 

[SeanS]

My other option was doing some thread grafting as I have many 2 and 3 year old seedlings that I got from this same tree.

Any form of grafting seems viable with Ume. Scion grafting is the generally used method though. I did however perform a successful approach graft this past season so any form of grafting should work.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

Bud grafting/chip budding can be very useful

It's commonly used in Japan for for entirely swapping the cultivar of mature Ume bonsai (for changing the flower type, foliage type, or other characteristics and habits), and this works well because it can be more discrete than using scions. I personally find bud grafts easier to use when working on smaller material, or in tight spots.

The success rate can be quite high. I did two all the way back onto the trunk of an old Ume (to start a new primary branch in a new location), no problem.

 

[SeanS]

Bud grafting/chip budding can be very useful

It's commonly used in Japan for for entirely swapping the cultivar of mature Ume bonsai (for changing the flower type, foliage type, or other characteristics and habits), and this works well because it can be more discrete than using scions. I personally find bud grafts easier to use when working on smaller material, or in tight spots.

The success rate can be quite high. I did two all the way back onto the trunk of an old Ume (to start a new primary branch in a new location), no problem.

@Canada Bonsai it looks like a petiole still attached, so I’m guessing this type of grafting can be performed during the growing season?
The splice cut into the stock looks quite simple from the pictures. Is it just a “normal” scion type cut? Nothing fancy like T shaped cuts or clever dove tail shapes? (Not sure how to word that )

 

[rockm]

Bjorn has a video on partial outer-canopial defoliation for Mume. To my knowledge this is one of the better ways to encourage back-budding on older branching. Your other option is grafting material to the interior portion of branches, personally I'd resort to this as a fall back if defoliation fails.

As Bjorn is quite familiar with a particularity notable Mume collector (Nobuyuki Yanai), I'd be quite surprised if he was ill informed.




And, uh, no. Plum and Apricot are the same genus. If you wanted to get extremely technical, Mume are closer related to Apricot than they are to Plum, but ultimately its a very arbitrary distinction when it has its own name. This is especially silly as the 'Chojubai' Quince is "Longevity Plum"... not a plum in the least, not even the same genus!



I'm also curious about this. Have you worked on any Mume that are several decades old? Leggy branches is a sign of old age for Mume. Branches are absolutely very brittle, the saving grace being its ability to retain those damaged branches, perhaps out of spite for heavy handed bonsai artists.

Very informative video. Love the first part most with those older trees and their owner.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

@Canada Bonsai it looks like a petiole still attached, so I’m guessing this type of grafting can be performed during the growing season?
The splice cut into the stock looks quite simple from the pictures. Is it just a “normal” scion type cut? Nothing fancy like T shaped cuts or clever dove tail shapes? (Not sure how to word that

Here in Montreal-area mid-August works well (i’ll let you do the math for your area )

Graft mid-august; union heals by winter; bud will not normally extends new growth but will instead go into dormancy; in spring it wakes up and extends growth like any other bud.

Lots of ways to performs the cuts, but i’ll let google images do the talking since when it comes to describing grafts an image really is worth 1000 words!

 

[SeanS]

Here in Montreal-area mid-August works well (i’ll let you do the math for your area )

 

[rusticana]

Bjorn has a video on partial outer-canopial defoliation for Mume. To my knowledge this is one of the better ways to encourage back-budding on older branching. Your other option is grafting material to the interior portion of branches, personally I'd resort to this as a fall back if defoliation fails.

As Bjorn is quite familiar with a particularity notable Mume collector (Nobuyuki Yanai), I'd be quite surprised if he was ill informed.




And, uh, no. Plum and Apricot are the same genus. If you wanted to get extremely technical, Mume are closer related to Apricot than they are to Plum, but ultimately its a very arbitrary distinction when it has its own name. This is especially silly as the 'Chojubai' Quince is "Longevity Plum"... not a plum in the least, not even the same genus!



I'm also curious about this. Have you worked on any Mume that are several decades old? Leggy branches is a sign of old age for Mume. Branches are absolutely very brittle, the saving grace being its ability to retain those damaged branches, perhaps out of spite for heavy handed bonsai artists.

Not even a drupe. Ha!