Anyone try using gibberellic acid (Ga3) on seeds to lessen stratification and or other things

[tigerscott79]

100% Way better getting good seeds that just germinate by themselves.
But if they don't and you really need them to germinate, there's a bunch of techniques. Seems like you know a lot more about them than me.

There's a reason this stuff is mostly used for inter-species hybrids or other wide crosses or other wacky stuff.

Apparently, you can get embryos from Japanese pine tissue through tissue culture. But pines and maples give free seed. So what's the point (for us normal people)?

Similarly, chemicals like gibberellic acid, you probably also don't need. Through it cost way less time and money. You'd still have to fine tune your protocol. And no seed coat means a more consistent gibberellic acid application, probably.

indeed i agree, sadly there were only 3 current 2023 japanese maple seeds avaible semi fresh (listed as dry but collected oct2023) the rest were all many years older and dry so thats what got me to wondering if anything was worth speeding up or doing as instrustions stated but after contacting sheffeilds they said only if done as they list will they honor there seeds if dont germinate so thats what ill do with those from them. sadly though the osage orange seeds (Maclura pomifera)
i bought from them arrived and they were already half cracked open seeds (i had thought if that happened they were dead seeds) however when emailed them they were gruff and said try them let us know where not Chinese seed company were legit based within US and US seed source ((well at least the osage orange seeds were US sourced (they do have seeds sourced outside US also i seen)) (the osage were for fun and for my property but still unsure if these i got are viable with them being cracked open ) attached 2 photos. You can see the seeds that are opened almost like pistachios. So hoping the seeds I got are intact and viable (Osage orange) as for Japanese maple seeds doing as they say to do . Doing warm strat then cold strat and seeing .

 

[tigerscott79]

Before you spend hours sanding down and manually prying open seeds.. Maybe try half with just a regular method first?
I'm a lab technician, I'm fine with picking 3000 embryos per day from a petri dish.. But not everyone, or to be more precise: almost nobody, is cut out for that kind of labor.

Keep in mind that seedlings need space, you need rest and relaxation, and if you take cuttings from your seedlings they're going to be faster than any seed ever will.
Getting weakened seeds to germinate is one thing, but there's a reason why they're weak. They might not survive the first year. If you spend 5 minutes per seed, and then grow them up to meet certain death in a juvenile stage.. It might not be worth the effort.
When I read a 90% germination rate, I think it's awesome! 70? Nice! 40%? Also good! 30%? Okay, let's just double the purchase amount. If a couple extra dollars save me 6 hours of sanding seeds down I'm saving about a hundred dollar in labor costs.
I like experimenting and fiddling around, but sometimes I'm so laser focused on a certain technique that I forget the rest of the world has already solved that problem.
One time I made 300 different culture media compositions to take cuttings from a plant and getting them to root, and I spent about 500 euros doing so.. All the while I completely forgot that a new batch of seeds would cost me 15, and save me 6 months of experimenting.

Yea thats why I also got the clone machine , to hopefully once maples I have and recived from you get bigger I might be able root them and be alot easier then seeds that might not even be germinated by them given 90-120 warm them 90-120 cold strat puts them into fall practically. Will definitely keep posted as grow/go with things . That and ty btw heads up on those nurseries with amazing cultivars . Gobsmacked at how many I want though ik pricing and shipping will limit to one maybe two but we'll see . Hard to sit through winter when want to grow and enjoy nature already

 

[Kievnstavick]

What about cutting the embryo out of the seed aka rescue?

Often, it is the seed coat that is preventing germination. And if you are skilled enough to remove the coat, it might also reveal if the embryo is actually viable. I haven't tried this with maples, but in general this is a technique explored by plant research laps to speed things up. And maple seeds should be large enough that you can mechanically remove the seed coat. With something like pines, it should be even easier.

Otherwise, there are chemical ways to dissolve the seed coat. Peroxide is one. GA3 is sometimes part of these protocols as well.

I have done the cutting/sanding method to manually remove the seed coat on quite a few different species of seeds. I don't remove the entire seed coat as that is a bit too much work when just cutting a hole in the coating works just as well.

Just the other day, I cut the seed coating of some Korean hornbeam and Japanese Quince. I cut maybe 15 each before I called it quits due to the trouble of holding the seeds. I cut every baobab or large fabaceae family seeds as it is much easier then traditional methods of scarification.

Size of the seed is the largest factor on if I'd use a mechanical of chemical method.

 

[19Mateo83]

indeed i agree, sadly there were only 3 current 2023 japanese maple seeds avaible semi fresh (listed as dry but collected oct2023) the rest were all many years older and dry so thats what got me to wondering if anything was worth speeding up or doing as instrustions stated but after contacting sheffeilds they said only if done as they list will they honor there seeds if dont germinate so thats what ill do with those from them. sadly though the osage orange seeds (Maclura pomifera)
i bought from them arrived and they were already half cracked open seeds (i had thought if that happened they were dead seeds) however when emailed them they were gruff and said try them let us know where not Chinese seed company were legit based within US and US seed source ((well at least the osage orange seeds were US sourced (they do have seeds sourced outside US also i seen)) (the osage were for fun and for my property but still unsure if these i got are viable with them being cracked open ) attached 2 photos. You can see the seeds that are opened almost like pistachios. So hoping the seeds I got are intact and viable (Osage orange) as for Japanese maple seeds doing as they say to do . Doing warm strat then cold strat and seeing .

If you want an Osage tree send me a message. I have quite a few. They propagate from cuttings pretty easily too. I planted a bunch about 3 years ago.

 

[stevewill12]

I have used it in the past.
At the wrong concentration it will screw your seedlings over for life. It can inhibit germination as well, and deregulate other processes.
I got a couple dwarfisms induced, or went from 40% germination to a 100% forever dormancy.

If you're going to work with this stuff, make sure you store it well, know how to dissolve it, and for sure know how to do math with moles, liters, milliliters, micrograms, milligrams and related conversions.

Not all plant hormones are safe for humans either. So make sure you read the documentation amd google around a little.

For germination, if you feel the need for GA3, maybe check your seed source or technique instead.. I've found over the years that this is way more effective. Some seeds don't germinate because they're dead. GA3 isn't going to help in those cases. Also the concentration in literature is often based on a certain "lab strain" of a plant, so it might not translate to wildtype.

Store lye and acids in bottles, inside a plastic tub-container at least the same volume as the bottles and never together. I've seen highly educated people pour liquid nitrogen down the drains, and then throwing in highly concentrated acid.. making a caustic bomb for everyone in the room.. I'm not saying anyone here is stupid, but please be careful! Some hormones require HCl or KOH solutions to be dissolved, and those are easy to make in excess.

yeah true
and i actually found a converter where one can converter these units automatically, here it is https://oneconvert.com/unit-converters/weight-and-mass-converter/milligram-to-kilogram

 

[tigerscott79]

Thanks , yea I deemed it over my head but was curious to it and thought I would ask. Definitly saw that it can do way more harm then good and that alot is based on species and that many havnt been figured out dosage for, ect . I apreciate the information. Thanks.

 

[CapeCodBonsai]

Probably weird question but seen people in other forums post about using gibberellic acid to lessen/hadten germination from long stratification species like passiflora and thought it was worth ask if anyone's dabbled or tried it say with Japanese maples species or in general. Thought worth a topic maybe .

I’ve had some gibberelic acid in the freezer for a couple of years now and keep forgetting to take it out and experiment with it.

 

[Kievnstavick]

My baobabs that I sprayed with Ga3 had very long extentions. Before then, I sprayed them with humic acid with kelp.

The growth difference is easy to spot with the humic spray having a very dense leaf structure. I have had a few months of doing this on a multitude of species to feel confident in linking the density with the spray.

The long extensions happened maybe a few weeks after adding Ga3 to my rotation for about 3 weeks total before I just got a little lazy. The spacing between the nodes is remarkably different then the dense foliage growth from before. Almost as if it started "bolting" or getting leggy due to a lack of light (they are under grow lights, so quite unlikely to be a lack of light). My assumption is that this is the result of my trial Ga3 applications.

I am not sure if I'd use Ga3 in the future as a foliar spray, unless I am trying to develop a sacrificial branch to get it away from the tree as quickly as possible. I really liked my unscientific expirements with humic acid and kelp over the winter on my tropicals that I have begun spraying it on my climate-correct trees for the added density.


I have also used Ga3 as a seed soak, but I didn't really notice a remarkable difference from that and a prolonged humuc acid/kelp soak. As I didn't have a control in my initial trials, I can not provide anything other then my impressions of how much germinated in general.

 

[Timbo]

I have done the cutting/sanding method to manually remove the seed coat on quite a few different species of seeds. I don't remove the entire seed coat as that is a bit too much work when just cutting a hole in the coating works just as well.

Just the other day, I cut the seed coating of some Korean hornbeam and Japanese Quince. I cut maybe 15 each before I called it quits due to the trouble of holding the seeds. I cut every baobab or large fabaceae family seeds as it is much easier then traditional methods of scarification.

Size of the seed is the largest factor on if I'd use a mechanical of chemical method.

I can get away with not doing the warm stratification on some seeds using fingernail clippers warm/hot water. You really should clip/file most hard seed coats like Acacia, or it might just sit there and do nothing for a long time. At least that's my experience with my seed buying habit. Different sites have conflicting info. Some say warm strat for Maples and some only cold (All dry seeds). I like Treeshrubseeds.com Germination info better than most places.