Anyone have experience with mutagenic compounds?

Any mutagenic agent is also a carcinogen because they are basically synonymous. Plant and animal physiology are not too dissimilar so there will always be a risk.
I imagine all these are well-regulated and ideally only used in a proper lab even by a trained person.

What I would recommend you try instead is use UV light. You can buy many types of UV lamps and it is easy to turn it off and not expose yourself to any light.
Both UV B or UV C light should be good. The question will be which light intensity and duration you will need to apply, likely to young seedlings as they germinate naked.

Also, I think mutation breeding is only interesting to try if you are already sowing several hundreds of seeds anyway.
If you think you can generate corkbark varieties using mutagenic breeding, you'd very likely be disappointed.
If you apply the right dose, you will get mutants. Any mutant. Bad mutants.
And if you get anything interesting, they likely have bad mutations also.
And the something interesting you may get is likely not corkbark.

I just looked at a paper on UV mutagenisis in maize. And they didn't even test if the results they saw were genetic, or a physiological response to the UV radiation. So even if you get something, you will not be sure if it is genetic or a temporary environmental response.

I have been thinking about mutagenic breeding for my azalea seeds. But I am not sure what method I can use easily and effectively.
The article on 'atomic breeding' and using soil with random uranium, that's not really any good because they shoot alpha particles that are quickly stopped by the soil or even the cell wall.
And you don't know how much you have or a knob to increase or decrease.
Ideal would be to use a chemical or gamma rays, imo. But you can't really get a gamma ray source.
With radiation you have to realize you damage 1000 molecules, where 1 molecule is a DNA molecule. And then 1 out of those thousand damaged DNA molecules gets repaired into a mutation. Not sure about these actual numbers, but you can't shooting mutations. You are shooting to destroy chemical bonds. And down the line, some of that results in a mutation.
Additionally, you create mutations in parallel. They are not in the germ line.
I am not in this field of plant breeding at all. But to me it would make most sense to irradiate the pollen. But very often, they don't do it that way. These mutations will be somatic, like a mosiac of mutations in a tissue or organism. So some tissues may become mutant. They have to then grow and become the dominant part of the plant before you notice.

Based on my reading, the ideal chemical is indeed ethyl methanesulphonate. It can be very important which type of mutations the mutagenic agent produces. Point mutations, random, deletions, A to T or A to G or something else. Huge advantage is that you do no damage. You just mess up DNA replication so it generates errors. You can also dose to get specifically this number of mutations, leading to a specific number of loss of function genes. Which you can then tune to make the odds that it hits an essential gene low enough, etc.
 
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I see atomic gardening is usually done with Cobalt 60, which generates gamma radiation so that will work.
 
"The ion beam facility at the Takasaki Advanced Radiation Research Institute, the National Institutes for Quantum and Radiological Science and Technology, consists of a cyclotron and three electrostatic accelerators, and they are dedicated to studies of materials science and bio-technology."

Pretty sure that's out of my budget.
https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/atomic-gardening/ https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/radioactive-atomic-gardening

atomic-garden-thumbnail.jpg
 
Any mutagenic agent is also a carcinogen because they are basically synonymous.
Benomyl, Page 9, line 14, Mutagenic: Yes, Carcinogenic: No (well, studies are inconclusive; maybe gave mice tumors; maybe it didn't)
PDF: https://utz.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/EN_UTZ_List-of-Banned-PesticidesWatchlist_v1.0_2015.pdf
I imagine all these are well-regulated and ideally only used in a proper lab even by a trained person.
Not cheap but, hey: Free Shipping and HazMat Fees Included!
https://www.calpaclab.com/methanesu...sclkid=b6eb6f38ed7f11ec97b1d2f9f8e64697&ptn=2
What I would recommend you try instead is use UV light. You can buy many types of UV lamps and it is easy to turn it off and not expose yourself to any light.
Both UV B or UV C light should be good.
UVC Sounds good. It's a sterilizing light because it kills any cellular life it encounters. It's typically blocked by the Earth's atmosphere. That's why nothing on the Earth's surface has any natural experience with it.

Except for the people at this one Hong Kong nightclub. At least the lights were pretty:
https://www.self.com/story/people-who-attended-this-sexy-neon-light-party-say-their-eyes-got-burned

The question will be which light intensity and duration you will need to apply...
Determine the germination rate for your seeds (example: 70% of seeds germinate). Then vary your application of a mutagenic agent until you reach an LD50 level (new seed germination rate is 35%. (I'm not sure why you shoot for LD50, but that's what I've read.)
...If you apply the right dose, you will get mutants. Any mutant. Bad mutants.
MoreEthylMethaneSulfonate.jpg
(blame @ShadyStump for that one)
...
Based on my reading, the ideal chemical is indeed ethyl methanesulphonate. ...
Based on my reading, if you wanted to make the Mother Of All Carcinogens (MOAC), your benchmark carcinogen would be something like EMS.

One of the sources for EMS says they'll suspend it in the liquid matrix of your choice. I'm going to ask them to put it in a roll-on deodorant bottle.
I see atomic gardening is usually done with Cobalt 60, which generates gamma radiation so that will work.
Medical Grade Cobalt 60 for sale! No shopping cart, though: https://www.nordion.com/products/medical-grade-cobalt-60/

I want to say I will never experiment with mutagenic compounds. However, I found out yesterday that Kelthane (which I have) is DDT's bastard cousin. "Never do this" is valid so long as temptation doesn't win.
 
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Plugging "mutagenicity conifers" into google scholar brings up some interesting things that trigger ideas. One that immediately comes to mind after seeing literature discussing roadside trees that experienced mutagenic effects from their environment is to look for sites out in the wild that may host mutants or have witches brooms present so that they can be harvested and cloned. So in addition to getting out and looking, I guess you have to select stressful or mutagenic sites. High elevations do get a lot more radiation, btw.

For me, it's easier to for me to clone a mutant dougfir or lodgepole found in the wild, one which already has some momentum and has survived for a short while, than it is to grow seedlings at scale looking for the one good mutant.

However, the latter strategy was what Jean Iseli started out doing (btw, he was a mathematician and not a geneticist, so he also "did not have the education" -- I don't really understand this dismissive attitude on a hobbyist site of all places -- and his company is now the biggest source of ornamentals and cultivars in the country):

Chosen out of 50,000 seedlings planted in 1980, ‘Just Dandy’ has been selected for its unique and appealing habit

Nineteen years ago a large crop of seed was collected from Chamaecyparis obtusa ‘Nana Gracilis’ at Iseli Nursery. Jean Iseli had a goal of finding a dwarf blue seedling of this species. Of the more than 50,000 seedlings that were grown from this crop, the majority were compact and green similar to the parent ‘Nana Gracilis.’ This crop also produced the entire range of sizes, in both green and yellow, from micro-miniature to large trees. A blue selection was not found. Many beautiful plants could have been named and propagated but the goal of Iseli Nursery is to introduce plants that are significantly different than currently available selections. Today we are continuing to evaluate nine selections from the crop of 50,000 seedlings started 19 years ago and of these, we may name and introduce only one or two.

.. but he did also come to rely on mutant trees found in the wild to source interesting cultivars. More here.
 
... he also "did not have the education" -- I don't really understand this dismissive attitude on a hobbyist site...
The attitude is acceptable in the case of mutagenic compounds; chemicals that alter DNA in unpredictable ways.

Read the "Response Recommendations" for a list of reasons this stuff made it to my "Scary Shit" list:
https://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/chemical/16210
 
Benomyl, Page 9, line 14, Mutagenic: Yes, Carcinogenic: No (well, studies are inconclusive; maybe gave mice tumors; maybe it didn't)
PDF: https://utz.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/EN_UTZ_List-of-Banned-PesticidesWatchlist_v1.0_2015.pdf

Since cancer is caused by mutations, anything that causes random mutations should be carcinogenic.
However, it is indeed true that a mutagenic agent can not be flagged in a carcinogenic test.
It could be one needs a specific experiment to induce the mutations. So exposure does not result in cancer.
As a non-expert user anything that can induce mutations should immediately raise red flags regarding to safety.
And it is not just cancer that can be a risk.
 
Since cancer is caused by mutations, anything that causes random mutations should be carcinogenic.
However, it is indeed true that a mutagenic agent can not be flagged in a carcinogenic test.
It could be one needs a specific experiment to induce the mutations. So exposure does not result in cancer.
As a non-expert user anything that can induce mutations should immediately raise red flags regarding to safety.
And it is not just cancer that can be a risk.
I agree with you on this. Cancer or no cancer, randomly scrambling my DNA is an undesirable effect.
 
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