BillyBonesBonsai
Shohin
Im looking to grow some from seeds, any advice?
Any Success with American elms?
- Thread starter BillyBonesBonsai
- Start date
peterbone
Mame
Why from seed? If you’re in South Africa then why American Elm rather than a more suitable Elm species? I doubt that American Elm will even survive in your zone.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I transplanted a first year seedling last year into more Sun.
This year it grew to about 3/4 inch..huh3-4 CM..and is growing well even after a weedwhack hit!
Look to grow the trunk then layer it.
Beat em up!
Sorce
This year it grew to about 3/4 inch..huh3-4 CM..and is growing well even after a weedwhack hit!
Look to grow the trunk then layer it.
Beat em up!
Sorce
Melospiza
Shohin
They are very common weed trees in eastern North america, but usually die of dutch elm disease once they get to be a certain size. However, there is a new cultivar called 'Princeton' which is resistant to that disease. What attracts you to American elm? Chinese elm has much smaller leaves, is easily available and is disease-resistant and also more suited for your climate.
BillyBonesBonsai
Shohin
I have seeds that I got from a friend and I thought I would try it out, also growing up a lot of the articles i read we about elms.
Melospiza
Shohin
Worth a try. They grow rapidly but the leaves can eventually reduce well. They grow well into middle Florida, which warmer than Joburg, so you should have no problem growing it there. Btw, there is no USDA zone 14, you are in USDA zone 9B.
VAFisher
Masterpiece
Definitely give it a try. American Elm is way more interesting than Chinese Elm (at least to me) because there are about a billion and a half Chinese Elm bonsai. I have one and like it a lot. In my experience, the leaves will reduce easily without any real effort and it's pretty bullet proof. Dutch elm disease is not a concern for bonsai.
Here's mine - which is still a work in progress.
Winged Elm is worth working with also.
Here's mine - which is still a work in progress.
Winged Elm is worth working with also.
BillyBonesBonsai
Shohin
Definitely give it a try. American Elm is way more interesting than Chinese Elm (at least to me) because there are about a billion and a half Chinese Elm bonsai. I have one and like it a lot. In my experience, the leaves will reduce easily without any real effort and it's pretty bullet proof. Dutch elm disease is not a concern for bonsai.
Here's mine - which is still a work in progress.
Winged Elm is worth working with also.
Beauty
BillyBonesBonsai
Shohin
Corrected, you see in South africa we never used these Zones
BillyBonesBonsai
Shohin
Its like Kph to mph
Melospiza
Shohin
I understand. Hardiness zones are important in countries with severe frosts where plant selection can be tricky. In hot countries, it may be more useful to talk about 'heat zone maps'.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
USDA hardiness zones are extremely misunderstood. They don't readily translate to other countries and when they are, they can present some weird results--like Zone 8 in the U.K. Zone 8 is central Florida and alot of the Southern U.S. is.... (and the U.K. is hardly central Fla., Alabama, Mississippi, etc.) Try to translate USDA zones to other countries at your own risk...
Judging from the monthly temp. max/min. South Africa has a climate that is roughly similar to Texas or so--warm and hot summers with temps in some areas dropping to mid-20s F in the wintertime. That kind of climate is more than acceptable for American Elm.
Judging from the monthly temp. max/min. South Africa has a climate that is roughly similar to Texas or so--warm and hot summers with temps in some areas dropping to mid-20s F in the wintertime. That kind of climate is more than acceptable for American Elm.
Melospiza
Shohin
Why do you think it's weird that both the UK and Florida are in Zone 8? Hardiness zones simply tell you how low the average minimum winter temperatures can go, and the UK does not have the severe winters with hard freezes that most of the US gets. A few hours in particular severe weather might be enough to cause dieback in plants and that is all that the hardiness map represents.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Um, the U.K. is farther north than Maine...Yeah, it's surprising there are equivalents of Fla. climate there (which is greatly debatable) if you don't understand how the Gulf Stream works. Additionally, USDA zones were designed by an American agency based on the continental climate of North America.
from an explainer --
"Zone information alone is often not adequate for predicting winter survival, since factors such as frost dates and frequency of snow cover can vary widely between regions. Even the extreme minimum itself may not be useful when comparing regions in widely different climate zones. As an extreme example, most of the United Kingdom is in zones 8-9, while in the US, zones 8-9 include regions such as the subtropical coastal areas of the southeastern US and Mojave and Chihuahuan inland deserts, thus an American gardener in such an area may only have to plan for several days of cold temperatures per year, while their British counterpart may have to plan for several months."
Melospiza
Shohin
The USDA zone map does not tell us anything about the overall climate. UK and Southeastern US do not have equivalent climates. Just the winter lows are equivalent in these 2 places, which means the risk of frost damage to a particular plant species is similar in both the UK and northern Florida. That's all the USDA zone map tells us. Which is why, sometimes we need to look at the heat zones too. The UK has mild summers which allows peonies to be grown there, but Florida summers are too hot for plants like peonies, lilacs and dahlias. At the same time, heat-loving species like crapemyrtles and ficuses do poorly in the UK.
I agree with you that it is a bit shocking at first glance to think of these places as equivalent in any way.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
J"ust the winter lows are equivalent in these 2 places, which means the risk of frost damage to a particular plant species is similar in both the UK and northern Florida"
Well, yeah, the zone map DOES tell us a bit about overall climate, since it was developed with data from the continental U.S. and its various climate zones. They are a far shot from the data that the U.K. and Europe have.
There is significantly more danger of frost damage in the U.K. as they have longer winters with more chances for it...for instance.
This might work better over there, rather than trying to force a round peg into a square hole:
https://www.gardenia.net/guide/european-hardiness-zones
Well, yeah, the zone map DOES tell us a bit about overall climate, since it was developed with data from the continental U.S. and its various climate zones. They are a far shot from the data that the U.K. and Europe have.
There is significantly more danger of frost damage in the U.K. as they have longer winters with more chances for it...for instance.
This might work better over there, rather than trying to force a round peg into a square hole:
https://www.gardenia.net/guide/european-hardiness-zones
Melospiza
Shohin
Oh, I hadn't thought about the duration of winter. We do have much shorter winters in the US (relative to similarly zoned maritime climates) for sure.
Isn't that map from Gardenia.net pretty similar to the USDA zone map or am I misreading it?
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
You're misreading things--it's pretty obvious that a Zone 8 winter in the U.S. is going to be SHORTER than wintertime in the U.K...
Whatever, I just pointed out is that USDA zones were developed for North America and they may not be the best to apply to the island nation of the U.K. or the relatively small continent of Europe...
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Grow them elms.
American elms are badass trees.
Like Sorce said grow that trunk fast then ground layer it.
I planted 100 this spring.
They're hardly where I live.
And someone said to get Chinese elm fir leaf size. American elm can reduce leaves down to under 1/2 of an inch.
American elms are badass trees.
Like Sorce said grow that trunk fast then ground layer it.
I planted 100 this spring.
They're hardly where I live.
And someone said to get Chinese elm fir leaf size. American elm can reduce leaves down to under 1/2 of an inch.
BillyBonesBonsai
Shohin
You're misreading things--it's pretty obvious that a Zone 8 winter in the U.S. is going to be SHORTER than wintertime in the U.K...
Whatever, I just pointed out is that USDA zones were developed for North America and they may not be the best to apply to the island nation of the U.K. or the relatively small continent of Europe...
Or Africa at that matter
