Any experience using 'sweating techniques' indoors for i.a. Hawthorns?
Mike Hennigan
Chumono
Aerial roots are fine, if anything it’s letting you know it’s working. They will die off on their own later after removed from the bag. Also I wouldn’t worry too much about mold forming on the bark unless it’s getting really bad. I usually get some mold on the bark when I sweat hawthorn, but it doesn’t seem to affect the health of the tree and it it clears right up on its own after it is removed from the bag.
Mike Hennigan
Chumono
The bark is “dead” plant tissue so to speak, the mold doesn’t seem interested in attacking the living roots in my experience.
Storm87
Yamadori
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
Spray it with a peroxide / water solution, at least 1 part peroxide 3% solution to 9 parts water. I use it frequently at even stronger rates.
Storm87
Yamadori
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Storm87
Yamadori
For those who are interested; Tony Tickle just posted two instruction video's on his YouTube channel.
Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 1:
Not to derail this thread onto my situation (but I don't want to start another thread, being new and all), but a friend of mine just gave me a young cherry blossom clump forest that he collected from his yard, and I'm currently sweating it. It's pushing out lots of leaves and so far looking great, but I'm wondering what I should do if/when it starts to want to push out some flowers soon? Leave them or prune them to conserve the energy? The weather forecast is finally lots of sun and warmer temperatures for the next two weeks, so I'll be taking it out of the bag likely right away and giving it more ambient light and then into full sun eventually.
I live in the PNW Canada zone 8/9 on Southern Vancouver Island, the soil mix is about 3 to 1 pumice and peat moss, with a PM dressing on top.
Any thoughts would be fantastic.
I live in the PNW Canada zone 8/9 on Southern Vancouver Island, the soil mix is about 3 to 1 pumice and peat moss, with a PM dressing on top.
Any thoughts would be fantastic.
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Storm87
Yamadori
I really want to know the science behind this technique. Any idea is Ryan from Mirai has addressed it anywhere? Or even if he's addressed the science behind proper yamadori in general? I haven't come across him doing so.
Storm87
Yamadori
I had a subscription for a while, but never heard Ryan Neil mention it. On Mirai there is an interview with Randy Knight about yamadori after care; very very informative, but this method is not discussed. Randy Knight uses course sawdust as an after care method. No experience with that myself. I wonder if combining both methods would improve the survival rate ...
Storm87
Yamadori
After about 50 day's in a bin bag, from which I covered the the top with a clear plastic bag for about two weeks (when I felt there was enough foliage), I'm moving the hawthorn from the plastic bag in to open air.
During the period when I covered the top with a clear plastic bag I let down the humidity too much a few times, standing in full sun all day. As a result some leaf tips dried out a bit.
This is the result.
During the period when I covered the top with a clear plastic bag I let down the humidity too much a few times, standing in full sun all day. As a result some leaf tips dried out a bit.
This is the result.
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That's looking great!
I'm still very new, but I think I understand the sawdust making sense to keep moisture in the soil from drying out before the roots can relax and begin growing, and the water staying in the soil longer initially will also help keep the roots warmer, which will help stimulate root growth.
But, when is the time to take it out if the bag completely? Once the foliage has popped and starts the photosynthesis process (as long as the roots have had some time to adjust and grow after its shock)? As Ryan has said in many of his videos, there's no timeline to go off of with anything, there are only signs to read from the tree that can tell us information we want to know. But I'm still unsure as to the signs to watch for in the tree that will tell me it's ok to start introducing it to a regular sun/water/feed schedule. My cherry blossom clump now has lots of foliage push out these last two weeks of amazing weather where I live, but I don't know if it's all just its stored energy that's shot out and it's good to go or if it's now starting to exhaust itself with its foliage out but maybe poor root health still?
I think what I'm missing still with the science behind the photosynthesis process with yamadori is what's the connection between foliage and roots if one is ready to go before the other? Does this make sense, hahaha?
Edit: also, how was the subscription to Mirai? I was thinking of getting it. I find him to be the most useful out of any resource out there. I absolutely love that he takes such a scientific approach to bonsai - knowing what's going on scientifically rules out all the opinions out there.
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Storm87
Yamadori
Me also
. I'm into bonsai for only two years now.Well, according to Tony Tickle when the shoots are about 5 cm. Harry Harrington also mentions something like this in his video. But I also find it hard to determine when it's the right moment. For now I'll just keep a sharpe eye on the tree and see if de foliage dries out and if it keeps growing. I guess that's a sign that the tree is recovering. But there are experts here who can better answer that.
Perhaps someone else can answer that.
It's good. Ryan doesn't just tells you what to do, but how it works. That helps you to apply your new acquired knowledge to various situations. I leaned a lot from it. It's worth the money. However the streams are long, very long. So you need the time to watch. For now I canceled my subscription, because during spring/summer I just don't feel like watching a 2 hour streams. More something for during dark winter evenings.
I personally love the long videos, but I'm a major homebody, especially during covid. I've watched all his free ones now, some multiple times, so I might just have to dive into a sub for a bit to keep soaking up the knowledge.Me also
Well, according to Tony Tickle when the shoots are about 5 cm. Harry Harrington also mentions something like this in his video. But I also find it hard to determine when it's the right moment. For now I'll just keep a sharpe eye on the tree and see if de foliage dries out and if it keeps growing. I guess that's a sign that the tree is recovering. But there are experts here who can better answer that.
Perhaps someone else can answer that.
It's good. Ryan doesn't just tells you what to do, but how it works. That helps you to apply your new acquired knowledge to various situations. I leaned a lot from it. It's worth the money. However the streams are long, very long. So you need the time to watch. For now I canceled my subscription, because during spring/summer I just don't feel like watching a 2 hour streams. More something for during dark winter evenings.
Hopefully someone can help shed some light (pun intended) onto signs and timing. I'm sure it'll depend on the species, so for my cherry (being a young one), I'm thinking that with its foliage extended now it's probably fine to come out and give more ambient light. The more photosynthesis the better, likely, but being stuck in a bag for too long makes me think that it's not allowing enough light to start feeding the tree and get the internal traffic going.
For such a meditative and mindful hobby it sure is stressful!
Storm87
Yamadori
Tony Tickle mentioned in his instruction video that when the shoots come out yellowish the bag is too thick for enough light to come trough. Therefore, he advices to use very thin (el cheapo) bags.
Agree. So much information to comprehend
Guess it will pass when you had some succes with at least keeping some trees alive for a few seasons.Just subscribed to Mirai live for a month, and the first video I'm watching is the Randy Knight interview. Wow. So much learning, I love it. I feel so much more confident in my Sakura clump. It's getting full sun today and lots of misting. Thanks for your feedback on it!Tony Tickle mentioned in his instruction video that when the shoots come out yellowish the bag is too thick for enough light to come trough. Therefore, he advices to use very thin (el cheapo) bags.
Agree. So much information to comprehend
Strafe0000
Seedling
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How did it turn out? Oaks alive and well?Have you read the comments bellow Tony's thread? You can find many interesting questions and answers there ...
Improving the success rate of Yamadori
I have been using this technique now for over ten years and I have finally decided to share what I have learned. The technique is known as ‘sweating’ and is used extensively in arboretorial circles…yamadori.co.uk
Btw, there is another way how to use black plastic bags: a technique used by Mauro Stemberger and Italian bonsai collectors. It's not a sweating technique. He collects trees (mostly a huge oaks - quercus robur) in December and then he packs them in big plastic bags and store them in unheated green house or a garage during winter. No heat, no humidity, neither mist spray is needed. I found this technique easier (less complicated) and more suitable for my taste. I've been doing some experiments with it this winter: so far so good. Here is the link:
Watch from 5:50 on if you are only interested about this technique.
SmallTreeGuy
Yamadori
Interested in knowing how they faired as well! How are the oaks? I have one in black bag now that I would consider a world class yamadori specimen and could only be retrieved at one date the contractor gave me. The next day they cleared the area for an apartment building. No new growth yet but the few leaves it does still have are still supple and green. Potted immediately in pumice with damp spagnum on top and misted daily inside the bag multiple times. I hope it stays alive because the time I had to collect isn’t ideal usually.
Javaman4373
Shohin
I collected a number of hawthorns this spring, late March. I couldn't find black bags that were thin enough to transmit some light, so I bagged the trees in clear bags and kept them in my furnace room until they pushed some buds. I kept a single bulb grow light shining on them in the furnace room for about 12 hours per day. I then transitioned them to the outside, still in the clear bags for a week or so and finally released them from the bags. They have all grown well over the summer. Shown is one example, the tree (actually two trees bonded together) in May and then again today.
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