tigerscott79
Mame
Thank you , absolutely great info and easy to understand and see.
Any advice on or sources for dawn redwoods to grow out and gain good nebari formation (sorry if wording it incorrectly)
- Thread starter tigerscott79
- Start date
Growing from seed has its benefits, but I wouldn't get too wed to that mentality as some trees will take a very (very) long time to get the attributes we are looking for starting from seed. There will also be failures and mistakes along the way. What Rockm suggested is really good advice, not just for nebari but for other parts of the tree as well. Starting with a tree that has some age, natural qualities and work done to it can shave off many years (even decades) from the development process. And more likely than not whatever you are buying will still need many years of further development to even get it into a bonsai pot. I believe this feeling of lack of ownership of a tree if not grown from seed is maybe misplaced. One of the best pieces of advice I got here was to acquire trees in different stages of development. This way, I can have so many trees growing out while still doing some actual bonsai work on other specimens.
I believe it is a Buddhist quote that when one is not sure about what to do, just do something (but it may have been my mom who said that). This applies to bonsai as well. There is a lot to learn here, so just get started, learn and have fun with it. Personally, I killed and maimed everything I touched in the first year, but learned a lot (OK, year 2 was similar). So grow your seeds, learn about watering and fertilizing, study the habits of the species you are working with. Eventually, you will start to better understand what you want to develop and how you get your trees there.
tigerscott79
Mame
No offense but your missing what I ment but thats ok . Was just stating I personally enjoy and prefer to do the work from start to finish and growing trees from seed is my preference and feeling as well as for some of use time isn't an issue and we're not about speed growing a wonderful specimen . Kinda rude saying that mentality comment . Blocked as I have zero time for people like that
Sometimes I just don't get people. I was trying to help you, but if you don't want advice I won't give it. The mentality of growing from seed so the tree is "fully yours" is not unique to you. It's just one more newbie mistake. Go reinvent the wheel.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Wow...There was certainly no insult in the advice above. You're not looking for advice as much as bias confirmation. That's fine, but you really didn't ask about growing out seedlings (which is a pretty common topic here and there are literally dozens of threads about doing so.)
The "speed growing" thing is interesting, as the process you're after could be described as the "slow motion" process. The bottom line in all of this is, growing a seedling out in the ground for at least five years is the path to developing nebari of any consequence, ten would be better, 15 great...If you're planning on developing nebari in a container, add 20 to the timeline...
The "speed growing" thing is interesting, as the process you're after could be described as the "slow motion" process. The bottom line in all of this is, growing a seedling out in the ground for at least five years is the path to developing nebari of any consequence, ten would be better, 15 great...If you're planning on developing nebari in a container, add 20 to the timeline...
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
@tigerscott79 had asked me to delete his response, because he understood there was a communication gap and didn't want to cause drama. However I am going to keep the original text - with the caveat that no offense was intended 
andrewiles
Shohin
There is also usually more than one way to do things. I love the explanation from @RedPandaNursery. As an example of a contrasting approach that also works, I've been growing out some rooted cuttings with ground layers and the ebihara technique.
Here's a roughly 3 year progression.
2021. Ground layer to create a new set of roots. Did not cut into the cambium. Just a tight constriction. The tree will grow enough in one summer to push roots above.
Here's a different tree, but it shows what the new roots look like as they start to grow above the constriction.
2022. Repot and screwed to a board. Nails used to spread the roots somewhat evenly. All of the original roots below the ground layer constriction were cut off at this point, leaving a flat base. Not many roots, but DRs won't care. They will bounce back.
2023. Lots of new root growth. Before any pruning. Yes, the board is still under there.
After removal from board and some root cutback. Already seeing some flare and the base. Put back on a new board after this.
2024: This coming year I'll do the same thing as 2023. Once the roots and lower trunk look good it can go into a smaller pot to begin upper development.
Here's a roughly 3 year progression.
2021. Ground layer to create a new set of roots. Did not cut into the cambium. Just a tight constriction. The tree will grow enough in one summer to push roots above.
Here's a different tree, but it shows what the new roots look like as they start to grow above the constriction.
2022. Repot and screwed to a board. Nails used to spread the roots somewhat evenly. All of the original roots below the ground layer constriction were cut off at this point, leaving a flat base. Not many roots, but DRs won't care. They will bounce back.
2023. Lots of new root growth. Before any pruning. Yes, the board is still under there.
After removal from board and some root cutback. Already seeing some flare and the base. Put back on a new board after this.
2024: This coming year I'll do the same thing as 2023. Once the roots and lower trunk look good it can go into a smaller pot to begin upper development.
tigerscott79
Mame
That is phenomenal. Seriously wow. So how do you do the process with the ?metal plate to cause roots to grow above it . Pretty amazing, I did not realize dawn redwoods were so resilient. I mean ik plants in general can handle incredible amounts of varying stresses and adapt but I'm speechless. Whst is it called the "process " with the plate .
andrewiles
Shohin
Dawn redwoods are more rugged than most. But if you look around the forum you'll see that very aggressive root work is possible with many deciduous species.
There is a concept in bonsai called air layering. If you're not familiar with it you can search online or around the forum for many examples and explanations. A form of this where the layer is at the base of the tree is called a ground layer. A further related concept is a type of layer where you are not cutting into the bark, but instead are constricting its growth and letting the tree grow around the constriction. This can take longer but can produce the same effect: roots above the constriction/layer point. In my example, I ground layered the young tree using a metal plate as a constriction. But you could also use wire, etc.
There is a concept in bonsai called air layering. If you're not familiar with it you can search online or around the forum for many examples and explanations. A form of this where the layer is at the base of the tree is called a ground layer. A further related concept is a type of layer where you are not cutting into the bark, but instead are constricting its growth and letting the tree grow around the constriction. This can take longer but can produce the same effect: roots above the constriction/layer point. In my example, I ground layered the young tree using a metal plate as a constriction. But you could also use wire, etc.
