Any advice on or sources for dawn redwoods to grow out and gain good nebari formation (sorry if wording it incorrectly)

[tigerscott79]

Really interested in how masters or others are forming and training there dawn redwoods and process to obtaining great nebari root form and at what stages to achieve this. Online searching hasn't yielded alot that I could fins though late night searches are prolly not the most efficient. Any links or advice welcomed if anyone's willing to share knowledge I could gleam and learn and see from thanks

 

[BrianBay9]

There are plenty of threads on here regarding developing trunks and nebari. The fastest way is to plant them in the ground for three or four years. Search the site for developing nebari.

 

[tigerscott79]

There are plenty of threads on here regarding developing trunks and nebari. The fastest way is to plant them in the ground for three or four years. Search the site for developing nebari.

Thanks, yea ive been searching sin e last night but only seeing fluting dawn redwood posts but atm.reading through every dawn redwood post . Tried search and advanced search options . Guessing I'm typing to much or not enough for it to find it. Even searched for it on YouTube but big fail there too so quite possible I'm over thinking what I'm searching idk.

 

[19Mateo83]

Thanks, yea ive been searching sin e last night but only seeing fluting dawn redwood posts but atm.reading through every dawn redwood post . Tried search and advanced search options . Guessing I'm typing to much or not enough for it to find it. Even searched for it on YouTube but big fail there too so quite possible I'm over thinking what I'm searching idk.

Basically, you can treat them like a bald cypress.

 

[RJG2]

I mention this occasionally, but if I can't find something here using the search, I just use Google.

Syntax:

site:bonsainut.com your search terms here

 

[tigerscott79]

I mention this occasionally, but if I can't find something here using the search, I just use Google.

Syntax:

site:bonsainut.com your search terms here

I actually did ...

 

[karen82]

I have one I'm ground growing, but not for long enough to provide any good info from personal experience. I've been told they are a species that naturally tend to develop good nebari, but that it is also good to keep them pruned into roughly a conical shape ( ie, top growth cut back heavily, lower growth left untrimmed) while ground growing to help with taper. Mine I was growing just for size for a couple years, no pruning, and it developed only slight taper. Last spring, I dug it, chopped it, sawed off the bottom of the rootball, and replanted it over a flat rock. I let it grow free to recover last summer, and now am going to try pruning it to a conical shape for another year or two to see if that helps with developing taper.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Here's my two cents - pretty much regardless of the tree you are working with, you want to get the nebari developing. This means cutting roots back and getting them set up radially. Redwoods can take somewhat of a beating in this regard, so don't be too concerned when it's time to prune the roots back. Again, like so many of the trees we will work with, you need to ask yourself how tall of a tree do you ultimately want. The height of the tree will dictate the thickness of the base of the trunk you will need (usually 1:6 - 1:10). In turn, the thickness of the base of the trunk will dictate how long you grow the tree before doing the "real" bonsai work on branching etc. This last statement is somewhat of an oversimplification as you will need to determine whether you want to grow it freely and then make large cuts (leaving large scars) or to prune back in more of a cut and grow method. The latter will give you somewhat slower thickening, but better taper/movement and smaller scars.

With my DRs, I decided that they want to be larger specimens and am in the process of growing them out. I have 3 and have treated them somewhat differently to play around - one has a thread here. I got it as a stick and immediately repotted (it was really early spring) into a larger container than it came with and spread the roots out. By the end of the season I had slip potted it as it grew so much. It was slip potted again this year into a much larger container and allowed to grow into the ground. It's now well over 10 feet, with a 2.5" base. I will let it run for another season, but will start to prune off unwanted branches.

 

[tigerscott79]

Here's my two cents - pretty much regardless of the tree you are working with, you want to get the nebari developing. This means cutting roots back and getting them set up radially. Redwoods can take somewhat of a beating in this regard, so don't be too concerned when it's time to prune the roots back. Again, like so many of the trees we will work with, you need to ask yourself how tall of a tree do you ultimately want. The height of the tree will dictate the thickness of the base of the trunk you will need (usually 1:6 - 1:10). In turn, the thickness of the base of the trunk will dictate how long you grow the tree before doing the "real" bonsai work on branching etc. This last statement is somewhat of an oversimplification as you will need to determine whether you want to grow it freely and then make large cuts (leaving large scars) or to prune back in more of a cut and grow method. The latter will give you somewhat slower thickening, but better taper/movement and smaller scars.

With my DRs, I decided that they want to be larger specimens and am in the process of growing them out. I have 3 and have treated them somewhat differently to play around - one has a thread here. I got it as a stick and immediately repotted (it was really early spring) into a larger container than it came with and spread the roots out. By the end of the season I had slip potted it as it grew so much. It was slip potted again this year into a much larger container and allowed to grow into the ground. It's now well over 10 feet, with a 2.5" base. I will let it run for another season, but will start to prune off unwanted branches.

Ty svm , goof read and I believe I've been reading through all dawn redwood posts will definitely keep look out or search yours directly . Thank you being so kind and helpful . Not sure why some just say Google or search as I always do that then ask if cant seem find what I'm after though tbh sometimes I over think things and totally miss obvious answers . Medically retired due to few disabilities so ik not the best when searching ect. But sorry on rambling there. Ty again for great response and it totally makes sense on two types potted and pinching and alow as you go or field and thicken. One question if ok ask do you personally feel slate or stone or tile underneath will help with radials (roots ) for its nebari along with ground or pouch bag (large) planted or any form of the two or three. Or maybe experiment as well. Wasnt sure if air (root pruning) or in ground and let it rip (not r.i.p.hopefully) . Forum here is so much great info and people thanks

 

[dbonsaiw]

One question if ok ask do you personally feel slate or stone or tile underneath will help with radials (roots ) for its nebari along with ground or pouch bag (large) planted or any form of the two or three. Or maybe experiment as well. Wasnt sure if air (root pruning) or in ground and let it rip (not r.i.p.hopefully) . Forum here is so much great info and people thanks

I personally have zero experience with the bags and use mainly grow boxes and cut off nursery pots. Using a tile or whatever underneath the roots definitely works, but isn't needed. You will get the nice nebari by just setting the roots radially and from the repots/cutting back the roots/setting them radially again over the years. This is a little over my pay grade, but I believe the tile becomes more of a necessity when going full-on Ebihara method. I have enjoyed my DRs - they are tough and grow like crazy.

 

[tigerscott79]

I personally have zero experience with the bags and use mainly grow boxes and cut off nursery pots. Using a tile or whatever underneath the roots definitely works, but isn't needed. You will get the nice nebari by just setting the roots radially and from the repots/cutting back the roots/setting them radially again over the years. This is a little over my pay grade, but I believe the tile becomes more of a necessity when going full-on Ebihara method. I have enjoyed my DRs - they are tough and grow like crazy.

Ofc again I really apreciate the advice and how you explained it.

 

[BrianBay9]

.... Not sure why some just say Google or search as I always do that then ask if cant seem find what I'm after ....

Because you're apparently the exception. Most beginners on this site ask before they search, without realizing what a wealth of info is already here. Glad to hear you take the initiative to try to find info first.

 

[NateDyk47]

Ty svm , goof read and I believe I've been reading through all dawn redwood posts will definitely keep look out or search yours directly . Thank you being so kind and helpful . Not sure why some just say Google or search as I always do that then ask if cant seem find what I'm after though tbh sometimes I over think things and totally miss obvious answers . Medically retired due to few disabilities so ik not the best when searching ect. But sorry on rambling there. Ty again for great response and it totally makes sense on two types potted and pinching and alow as you go or field and thicken. One question if ok ask do you personally feel slate or stone or tile underneath will help with radials (roots ) for its nebari along with ground or pouch bag (large) planted or any form of the two or three. Or maybe experiment as well. Wasnt sure if air (root pruning) or in ground and let it rip (not r.i.p.hopefully) . Forum here is so much great info and people thanks

Google/forum search can be hard if you're truly a beginner. For example, it can be hard to know what topics are actually species specific or what applies broadly. It can also be hard when you don't really know how to phrase your question. I'm glad you found what you're looking for. Keep asking questions; it'll get easier to find answers as you become more knowledgeable. Best of luck with your DR, they're fun trees!

 

[tigerscott79]

Google/forum search can be hard if you're truly a beginner. For example, it can be hard to know what topics are actually species specific or what applies broadly. It can also be hard when you don't really know how to phrase your question. I'm glad you found what you're looking for. Keep asking questions; it'll get easier to find answers as you become more knowledgeable. Best of luck with your DR, they're fun trees!

Ty and it is indeed . Have wonderful holidays and new year and glad most in forum are pretty kind people .

 

[rockm]

Best way to get a decent nebari on a Bald cypress (or dawn redwood) is to start with one that has one going, or already has it.

 

[tigerscott79]

Best way to get a decent nebari on a Bald cypress (or dawn redwood) is to start with one that has one going, or already has it.

Yea but I am starting with seedlings so that isn't feasible, but ty. I'm more into doing it all not having something already partly finished . I don't mean this bad just its something I prefer to be fully part of the experience is all.

 

[GGB]

I have grown Dawn reds from seed, they grow very quickly, in fact in my experience it’s even faster than trident. Which means you need to set up the nebari right away and get movement into the trunk very early. You can thread the seedlings through a metal washer or just trim off downward growing roots. I would advise against just planting them in the ground and ignoring them for very long. This species will get away from you very quickly. In 4 years you can achieve a 3-4” trunk even with starting in a pot. My ten year old is about 20” at the base

 

[Cajunrider]

If DR can be considered similar to bald cypress, I think you can develop a decent nebari and flare by careful root prune and placement so that the roots are radial. Fastest growth is to plant it in the ground in a spot optimum for growth. You will need to dig it up every now and then to tend to the roots. Next fastest is to plant it in a good size grow box.
I've been told that growing these trees this way will lead to good nebari. I myself have had promising growth and nebari with BCs after 3-4 years. The only thing I don't see with trees grown this way are the buttresses that extend from the base way up the trunk.

 

[tigerscott79]

If DR can be considered similar to bald cypress, I think you can develop a decent nebari and flare by careful root prune and placement so that the roots are radial. Fastest growth is to plant it in the ground in a spot optimum for growth. You will need to dig it up every now and then to tend to the roots. Next fastest is to plant it in a good size grow box.
I've been told that growing these trees this way will lead to good nebari. I myself have had promising growth and nebari with BCs after 3-4 years. The only thing I don't see with trees grown this way are the buttresses that extend from the base way up the trunk.

I would only assume that if were after Bald cypresses with buttresses they wouls need water source under the grow boxes to make them wish to push them put for air. Maybe those horse trough water tubs and then huge pots placed inside or grow boxes made out of corigated aluminum like for raiser beds but under neath using waterproof tarps or rubber pond lining so it held water half way up the grow area so acts like mini swamp/pond would in nature. Not sure would work for dawn redwoods gicem they need a lil less water but I bet for Bald cypresses it'd be smashing results maybe . I might need try couple Bald cypresses myself too now . Don't worry I fully encourage people to be enablers long as it's for gardening and pets just not S&% , Alc@#°/ , and Dr□#$. (Wasnt sue if allowed say that, given forumsbnot age limited maybe, so tried emote it with respect).

 

[RedPandaNursery]

We use a two year root pruning method on Dawn Redwoods that works really well for developing nebari. Dawn Redwoods are really interesting because they are the only tree species we grow that seems resistant to air pruning as seedlings. Every other plant we grow will hit the bottom of the container and then produce significant lateral root development starting about four inches back from the root encountering an air pruning edge, so a 4" deep air pruning container works great. But Dawn Redwoods seem to only branch right there at the bottom, resulting in seedlings retaining a tap root. You can see in the picture that almost all of the roots are still at the bottom of the container on a one year old seedling. By the first winter there will suddenly be a large number of new horizontal roots that develop from the sides of the taproot and then over the spring these develop into nice thick roots.

Our trick on these is to root prune all of the seedlings right after they drop their leaves in the fall which encourages more growth on the horizontal roots over the winter. The root systems are quite robust so the plants will have a well established root system by the time the spring growth comes out.


In the second winter we prune the tap root again, about three inches below the crown. From this point on the majority of the roots will be horizontal, so as they grow they will develop a great taper at the bottom of the trunk. After another year or two the soil level can be reduced by an inch, displaying the tops of the roots.