Antique Chinese Bonsai Pots as Investment?

chicago1980 said:
I support the Royal Caribbean Group with my investment. Hold it, and if any cruise company can come out of this pandemic alive, RC Group is the one I am betting on.

72.66 (today price) is a heavy discount right now if the company can bounce back to previous form in the next 5 years, bought. I will look into AAXX Axon today.
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Prob more in RC, yeah. I sold at $83 :) I sold aaxn at $126 was in at $94. Good luck
 
I avoid short term cap gains and pots too valuable to use. Me and the squirrels are not trustworthy. I don't like the idea of the state and the IRS getting a big chunk my lucky shots, so long term works better.
 
Forsoothe! said:
I avoid short term cap gains and pots too valuable to use. Me and the squirrels are not trustworthy. I don't like the idea of the state and the IRS getting a big chunk my lucky shots, so long term works better.
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Avoiding the tax penalty of a short term capital gain makes sense.

“Pots too valuable to use”? Not sure about that. You want your trees to look their best. Obviously, don’t spend money you can’t afford to spend. For any pot/tree that could potentially tip over, I tie them down to the bench. In Japan, they tie all the trees to the bench, stable or not!
 
Adair M said:
Anything is only worth what another person is willing to pay for it.

The original poster, Yengling83, I do not believe is interested in becoming a pot dealer. He’s looking to own a selection of usable pots for his collection, and was wondering if the “investment” he made in purchasing the pot(s) would appreciate over time. He’s smart enough not to purchase fakes or reproductions, and has connections to reputable vendors who can and will authenticate his purchases.

One thing I know, they’re not making any more Antique Chinese pots!
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Points taken, yes, anything is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay. That is the reason pots are "not liquid", because you may have to wait a long period of time for a buyer to come along willing to pay the seller's optimum price for a piece. If you have to sell quick, you are very unlikely to get the prices you need to make the investment a profitable one. It takes time and planning to unload a collection of valuable pots at a profit. Time might also be spent maintaining a network of pottery dealers, so that they are ready to take care of moving your pots when the time comes. Adair, have you made plans for how your estate should liquidate your pots? I don't actually want an answer. I know my estate plan has no real provision for my pots.

Yes, I know Yenling83 is a seasoned, expert bonsai artist with good connections. If he is buying them for his own enjoyment, a collection of useable pots, that is fine. But he will only realize an actual profit, over time if he is careful and smart. There are enough fakes out there that nobody is immune to accidentally picking up a fake. Again I don't want an actual answer, but I bet you might have one or two pots that turned out to not be as valuable as you originally thought when you bought them. I know I have a couple. And I use them. They look okay for my lower end level of bonsai display. Hell, for the quality of my trees, production grade is really good enough. LOL

Yes they are making more antique Chinese pots. Each year, we get another year older. As of New Years, the pots made in1921 have become 100 years old. That's a new batch of pots that graduated from just old to "antique". But I do get your point. There are no new 200 year old Chinese antique pots. So yes, if you buy right, meaning low in the range for the price, when you do need to sell, and you are able to sell at the high end of the range, you can actually make money. You are right, you can profit in the sale of high end pots.

I barely have time to care for my trees, the extra effort to do all the diligence needed to assure making a profit from the pots I own is just more time than I actually have. As an "investment" antique bonsai pots are not likely to pay much better than US Treasury Bonds. And they are not as liquid as a Treasury Bond. You might get lucky and make more, but it is also possible to loose money, especially if you factor in inflation.
 
Leo in N E Illinois said:
Points taken, yes, anything is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay. That is the reason pots are "not liquid", because you may have to wait a long period of time for a buyer to come along willing to pay the seller's optimum price for a piece. If you have to sell quick, you are very unlikely to get the prices you need to make the investment a profitable one. It takes time and planning to unload a collection of valuable pots at a profit. Time might also be spent maintaining a network of pottery dealers, so that they are ready to take care of moving your pots when the time comes. Adair, have you made plans for how your estate should liquidate your pots? I don't actually want an answer. I know my estate plan has no real provision for my pots.

Yes, I know Yenling83 is a seasoned, expert bonsai artist with good connections. If he is buying them for his own enjoyment, a collection of useable pots, that is fine. But he will only realize an actual profit, over time if he is careful and smart. There are enough fakes out there that nobody is immune to accidentally picking up a fake. Again I don't want an actual answer, but I bet you might have one or two pots that turned out to not be as valuable as you originally thought when you bought them. I know I have a couple. And I use them. They look okay for my lower end level of bonsai display. Hell, for the quality of my trees, production grade is really good enough. LOL

Yes they are making more antique Chinese pots. Each year, we get another year older. As of New Years, the pots made in1921 have become 100 years old. That's a new batch of pots that graduated from just old to "antique". But I do get your point. There are no new 200 year old Chinese antique pots. So yes, if you buy right, meaning low in the range for the price, when you do need to sell, and you are able to sell at the high end of the range, you can actually make money. You are right, you can profit in the sale of high end pots.

I barely have time to care for my trees, the extra effort to do all the diligence needed to assure making a profit from the pots I own is just more time than I actually have. As an "investment" antique bonsai pots are not likely to pay much better than US Treasury Bonds. And they are not as liquid as a Treasury Bond. You might get lucky and make more, but it is also possible to loose money, especially if you factor in inflation.
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Hear, hear. We all need to choose where we will spend enough time & energy to get actually good at something, and expertise in aged pots is no different. There's always a learning curve involved and usually an expense that rises concurrent to the rise in expertise. In this particular case there is one more little fly in the ointment: the Chinese are really good at forgery. It's called business as usual in China, they make antique pots every day and they look nice. They sell them everywhere and may use broken English as a tool to describe the provenance and we in the west may mentally correct their less than perfect English explicit declarations to meet our desired goal of finding what we wanted to find.

Fortunately, these forgeries are nice enough reproductions, as is, and do make for a display that appears just as it did back in the day. If only my trees were up to snuff...
 
Forsoothe! said:
Hear, hear. We all need to choose where we will spend enough time & energy to get actually good at something, and expertise in aged pots is no different. There's always a learning curve involved and usually an expense that rises concurrent to the rise in expertise. In this particular case there is one more little fly in the ointment: the Chinese are really good at forgery. It's called business as usual in China, they make antique pots every day and they look nice. They sell them everywhere and may use broken English as a tool to describe the provenance and we in the west may mentally correct their less than perfect English explicit declarations to meet our desired goal of finding what we wanted to find.

Fortunately, these forgeries are nice enough reproductions, as is, and do make for a display that appears just as it did back in the day. If only my trees were up to snuff...
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Lol!!!

I don’t buy my Antique Chinese pots from China! Nor does anyone else! At this time, the wealthy Chinese are buying the old Antiques back from the Japanese!
 
Leo in N E Illinois said:
Points taken, yes, anything is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay. That is the reason pots are "not liquid", because you may have to wait a long period of time for a buyer to come along willing to pay the seller's optimum price for a piece. If you have to sell quick, you are very unlikely to get the prices you need to make the investment a profitable one. It takes time and planning to unload a collection of valuable pots at a profit. Time might also be spent maintaining a network of pottery dealers, so that they are ready to take care of moving your pots when the time comes. Adair, have you made plans for how your estate should liquidate your pots? I don't actually want an answer. I know my estate plan has no real provision for my pots.

Yes, I know Yenling83 is a seasoned, expert bonsai artist with good connections. If he is buying them for his own enjoyment, a collection of useable pots, that is fine. But he will only realize an actual profit, over time if he is careful and smart. There are enough fakes out there that nobody is immune to accidentally picking up a fake. Again I don't want an actual answer, but I bet you might have one or two pots that turned out to not be as valuable as you originally thought when you bought them. I know I have a couple. And I use them. They look okay for my lower end level of bonsai display. Hell, for the quality of my trees, production grade is really good enough. LOL

Yes they are making more antique Chinese pots. Each year, we get another year older. As of New Years, the pots made in1921 have become 100 years old. That's a new batch of pots that graduated from just old to "antique". But I do get your point. There are no new 200 year old Chinese antique pots. So yes, if you buy right, meaning low in the range for the price, when you do need to sell, and you are able to sell at the high end of the range, you can actually make money. You are right, you can profit in the sale of high end pots.

I barely have time to care for my trees, the extra effort to do all the diligence needed to assure making a profit from the pots I own is just more time than I actually have. As an "investment" antique bonsai pots are not likely to pay much better than US Treasury Bonds. And they are not as liquid as a Treasury Bond. You might get lucky and make more, but it is also possible to loose money, especially if you factor in inflation.
Click to expand...
Well, like most hobbyists, I’m not in it to make money. Oh, sure, I’ve spent plenty of it on my hobby, but I’m not trying to profit. I don’t have a huge collection of expensive pots, but I do have a few. I don’t have them just to have them, I use them. The old pots have patina from being used. It doesn’t get there by sitting on the shelf.

My son will inherit my bonsai collection. I’ve told him which trees are valuable, and he knows who to contact.

When I get too old to properly maintain my trees, I’ll probably start selling off the collection to the next generation. I have acquired a number of my better trees from elderly persons wishing to see their trees passed on to someone they know will be able to properly take of it.
 
I have 15 Antique Chinese pots. 13 have trees in them. The other two have had trees in them, but got changed out. I’ve acquired them slowly over the past 10 years. I have about 75 “finished” bonsai. So a little less than 20% of my finished trees are in Antique Chinese pots.
 
Adair M said:
I have 15 Antique Chinese pots. 13 have trees in them. The other two have had trees in them, but got changed out. I’ve acquired them slowly over the past 10 years. I have about 75 “finished” bonsai. So a little less than 20% of my finished trees are in Antique Chinese pots.
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I am slowly building a collection of antique pots for Bonsai trees that I started about 4-5 years ago. All junipers.

It's a learning experience.

Any photos of the trees in pots would be appreciated
 
I've always had a distinct appreciation for older things... my first house was approx 250 years old... and perhaps, that's one of many reasons why I appreciate bonsai. In my mind, it was a natural progression for me to start collecting some of the antique pots once I was able to afford them. I've been building a collection of bonsai pots for over 20 years, but It's only been in the last 6 years or so that I've acquired some nicer, older "collectible" pots. Here are the only ones currently planted out... literally training pots for the trees residing in them- though I'm also attempting to improve the patina of these pots and you do that through using them.
3F8643EF-FB4A-4924-BFA7-B46D77679559.jpegIMG_3840 (1) (1).jpg
Here are a few more. Each is well over 100 years old and will absolutely get planted if the right tree comes along (actually, at least one or two are going to be used this coming season)
IMG_4965.jpgIMG_4966.jpg
IMG_4969 (2).jpg
Even this 200 year old Kowatari era pot will almost definitely get a tree placed in it...
IMG_4968.jpg
same for this antique Japanese pot
IMG_4970.jpg
In my mind, a nice old pot that looks good both on a book shelf or mantle AND out on a bench under a nice tree is a win-win for me.
 
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Dav4 said:
I've always had a distinct appreciation for older things... my first house was approx 250 years old... and perhaps, that's one of many reasons why I appreciate bonsai. In my mind, it was a natural progression for me to start collecting some of the antique pots once I was able to afford them. I've been building a collection of bonsai pots for over 20 years, but It's only been in the last 6 years or so that I've acquired some nicer, older "collectible" pots. Here are the only ones currently planted out... literally training pots for the trees residing in them- though I'm also attempting to improve the patina of these pots and you do that through using them.
View attachment 350410View attachment 350411
Here are a few more. Each is well over 100 years old and will absolutely get planted if the right tree comes along (actually, at least one or two are going to be used this coming season)
View attachment 350412View attachment 350413
View attachment 350416
Even this 200 year old Kowatari era pot will almost definitely get a tree placed in it...
View attachment 350414
same for this antique Japanese pot
View attachment 350415
In my mind, a nice old pot that looks good both on a book shelf or mantle AND out on a bench under a nice tree is a win-win for me.
Click to expand...
WOW, those a spectacular.
The shapes and various size.
The patina and colors are spectacular.
The cream and Kowatari are great.
Is the Kowatari a large pot?
 
chicago1980 said:
WOW, those a spectacular.
The shapes and various size.
The patina and colors are spectacular.
The cream and Kowatari are great.
Is the Kowatari a large pot?
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It’s big and very usable- 12.75 inches wide by 8 inches deep interior dimensions.
D58E3C3D-8722-4F71-B96B-8AA5FBD5FEFC.jpeg
 
Dav4 said:
It’s big and very usable- 12.75 inches wide by 8 inches deep interior dimensions.
View attachment 350424
Click to expand...

Now that is a pot I would love in my collection with a juniper

Is this a Matt I or MRB pot? Those two bring amazing pots to the USA soil.

Thank you for the share.
 
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