Air layering with upward cuts to improve taper on new stock

[ShadyStump]

After seeing Deep Sea Diver's pics of the operation, I think I know how this is supposed to work. I've seen similar things done with cuttings of old hard wood. The idea there, I believe, is to expose more wood so a hard wood cutting in water can absorb plenty of moisture, while exposing more of the cambien layer of bark which eventually grows the roots.
If you think of it geometrically, you've increased the surface area of the portions of the cut that send out roots, thereby potentially increasing the opportunity to grow roots. Makes sense.

 

[sorce]

Funny South Africa is mentioned, seems hot.

Hot like India, where this technique is also performed.

I think it's a shitload of "doing" that doesn't necessarily have to be done....

But these climates allow for it.

It may work there. Where it is too hot for pathogens to even live! Lol!

But seriously....

Sorce

 

[ShadyStump]

After seeing Deep Sea Diver's pics of the operation, I think I know how this is supposed to work. I've seen similar things done with cuttings of old hard wood. The idea there, I believe, is to expose more wood so a hard wood cutting in water can absorb plenty of moisture, while exposing more of the cambien layer of bark which eventually grows the roots.
If you think of it geometrically, you've increased the surface area of the portions of the cut that send out roots, thereby potentially increasing the opportunity to grow roots. Makes sense.

 

[Kadebe]

It is one of those techniques where I am always thinking.. Show me the result.
I personally find it hard to believe this would really work well.
Any pics of anybody done this?

The saw-tooth layer I am also not conviced. It should create a more uneven nebari. I find that roots come from several levels around the cut site anyway. So why? Maybe more natural looking later on?

Hi there,
I am a bonsai beginner and every day I learn a lot on this beautiful forum.
I came across that technique on YouTube.
This was demonstrated by a Filipino.

Video 1: demonstrating the technique
Video 2: result

 

[Literati]

The saw-tooth layer I am also not conviced.

Check out an example here and here.

 

[leatherback]

Video 2: result

OK, that is an ugly result!
GLad I saw that. Will never try it.

 

[leatherback]

Check out an example here and here.

Yup. So what does this show? No special nebari. Why not do the regular way? Does not seem to create any different result?

 

[Trenthany]

Hi there,
I am a bonsai beginner and every day I learn a lot on this beautiful forum.
I came across that technique on YouTube.
This was demonstrated by a Filipino.

Video 1: demonstrating the technique
Video 2: result

Cool it worked! It looks like Nebari formed off of each flap. That was the guy I saw btw!

 

[Trenthany]

Yup. So what does this show? No special nebari. Why not do the regular way? Does not seem to create any different result?

I think it’s a time thing. He did that in a year or so if I remember correctly.

 

[Trenthany]

OK, that is an ugly result!
GLad I saw that. Will never try it.

If he worked them after they sprouted I bet he could’ve gotten better.

 

[Trenthany]

Funny South Africa is mentioned, seems hot.

Hot like India, where this technique is also performed.

I think it's a shitload of "doing" that doesn't necessarily have to be done....

But these climates allow for it.

It may work there. Where it is too hot for pathogens to even live! Lol!

But seriously....

Sorce

So like Florida you mean...

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Finally - Results! Sorry to drop out of this thread for awhile. Despite CV19 I was pretty busy these last months.

So the limited experimental data is out! There were some variables though, that might of confounded the initial results however.

I opened up the plastic to look at the air layer August 18. There was only the beginning of root formation, yet in all the right places.


So I buttoned the bundle up for another day. One issue I had is that I neglected to punch drain holes in the right places, so it seemed too wet overall Due to poor drainage. So I fixed that with a dinner fork.

In the next two months I observed the root extensions start to grow, then extend in the layer area all the way to the bottom of the wrap. So on Oct 20 I opened they bundle, took a photo and chopped. It seems each of the roots formed from the areas between the flaps, then took off to the top sides nearest them. Then hit the sides and each grew downwards, separate from one another. I liked that so much I saw no need to tease off the sphagnum, besides freezing weather was forecast for the next three nights! So I wanted a bit of insulation in situation. That way I know things will start wrapped before I added rest of the media.


So I decided to use 50/50 sphagnum/fine bark for the wintering over media and 1” larger bark on top. Finally pruned the +4’ long branches back to manageable size.

Finally the Pacific Fire pot was dug into one of the old frames for the winter


What did I learn?

Well.. The experiment worked in the long term, 100 days to decent root size. Yet not in 6 weeks as advertised. However, that might of been the sphagnum being too wet. In the end the roots seemed to perform as advertised though.

Next year I will try this airlayer on some other maples and azaleas (if I can keep the thin azalea bark intact). Gotta also go back and find the @Osoyoung reference to the matchstick method to compare with this method.

I redid my air airlayer on a Sango Kaku the same way at the same time as the Pacific Fire. This trial will be run all winter as the roots are not showing well.. The third I did with my wife on the same Sango Kaku. It was good enough to separate and pot on the first of Oct.

Any thoughts?

Stay safe and healthy!
Cheers
DSD sends

 

[mudvein]

-- deleted

 

[Bonsai Nut]

While it is an interesting experiment... I'm not sure what you did learn. In other words, just to use this approach in a vacuum doesn't really tell you much. What I think you would want to do is to try this process while at the same compare it to other nebari / trunk flare processes to see which yields better results.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yep. So far I just tried one band airlayer on the Sangu Kaku and it failed against two successful flap/wire air layers and one in progress. Yet I did learn something from how this one and the Sangu Kaku (sadly no photos that day) turned out as far as the roots flaring. I've seen some other cool ideas that I've yet to try.

Decidely need more data and try more techniques when material presents. Its about time, but that's the nature of the bonsai too!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[leatherback]

Congrats on the succesfull airlayer. Maybe in spring when you do a proper pot-up you can show how the roots are connected to the different trunks?

 

[Arizona bonsai]

I tried a similar idea on a ficus cutting this summer. Don’t know how to link that thread.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

2021 Pacific Fire Maple (Vine Maple cultivar) air layer results.

Healthy, yet isolated roots.

Pulled the sphagnum and bark off the wintered over airlayer last weekend to discover all the roots came out of the area directly underneath the window flaps, creating a sparse ring of long roots equally spaced around the tree, 1 - 2 pre flap. There is also a good deal of callous tissue between roots that may sprout secondary roots later on.

I likely could of cut the stump just a little bit higher in retrospect, yet the roots were less than 1/2 off the board when I screwed it tight.

The entire shooting match was potted in 2:1:1 APL in a pot for now and I’ll pull it out later on down the line for more photos when I work the roots. My grandson,who was helping, now wants to go home to Scottsdale and airlayer all their Olive trees!

One question cropped up while doing this. If I had performed this technique on a Japanese Maple cultivar instead of a Vine Maple cultivar, perhaps the root results would be more robust....?

That question will have to be resolved in another experiment, perhaps this May.

Any thoughts?

cheers
DSD sends