Aeroponic propagation of JM cuttings

[RoadManDenDron]

@MaxChavez especially if you're already adding humic and fulvic you should also add kelp, Kelp is the key ingredient in most rhizotonic formulas

 

[MaxChavez]

@MaxChavez especially if you're already adding humic and fulvic you should also add kelp, Kelp is the key ingredient in most rhizotonic formulas

Yeah, I was gonna wait a week(mostly because I had some foliar burn on other plants and it made me gun shy) but you think go ahead and add it from the get go?
Any qty recommendations? It's liquid foxfarm Kelp Me Kelp You
Thanks!

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Kelp as foliar feed can burn if used more than once a week, or possible too strong, cytokinin in kelp promotes cytokinesis (cell division) a by product is heat and more than once a week the plant cannot transpire enough to lose the extra heat

This isn't the same in roots where I have used it daily on my pine seedlings

I am unfamiliar with your brand of kelp as well as humic/fulvic

But a Virginia tech 10 year study found the sweet spot is humic/fulvic 5: 2 kelp

So I'd say around half of however much humic/fulvic you're using

Can always start weak if you're shy and build up

I also use tech grade amino acids and cal mag, both on the motherplant up to a month before cutting and on the cuttings themselves

 

[Sootys trees]

Thanks for sharing. I'll be interested to see how things develop.

Here's what I'm attempting:

Test 3
Using tap water, ph adjusted to 6 after all the additives.
Dip cuttings 5 minutes in dip n grow Rooting hormone

In the resevoir, per gallon:
1ml dip n grow concentrate
8ml Hydrogen peroxide
5ml clonex cloning liquid
2.5ml humic/fulvic acid

If there's callusing/root tips after 1 week,
I'll add:
5ml clonex
2.5ml humic acid
1ml kelp

1 18in led plant light on 24/7
Water temp 65deg F ish
Spray 30min on 1hr off.

We'll see how it goes. I've reduced the additives, thinking maybe that's preventing growth? I also had the timer on 30/30 last time. Lots of people seem to run Timers 1 min on/5 off or 5/30off. But, the cost and programing for a short interval timer is way more, so, trying to cheat a little bit.

Everything you’ve listed sounds great, I’ve done a lot of research and have seen dozens of people using these additives and hormones etc, however I’ve no experience using them myself so I can’t say whether they help or not, but they most likely will as many people have success with them through trial and error from what I’ve seen.

do you have any concerns about the cuttings not receiving spray for 1 hour ?
I’m thinking cycling is to help the roots elongate, produce faster in search for water? And then boom the spray comes on and nourishes them… and repeat…

I haven’t experimented with cycling yet but I’m going to pick up a timer soon.
And a thermometer
And look into a cleanser and ph adjuster, this will most likely produce roots faster and healthier plants.

What cultivars are you cloning ? There’s a lot of people that say many are easier to root than others and then someone says the complete opposite , I tend to just go with the proven ones

 

[Sootys trees]

View attachment 550737
Here's a pic of Acer Rubrum after 20 days. I think things are happening, but I'd like to get it to speed up a bit. I also put in a traditionally rooted hinoki cutting, just to monitor growth. As @cmeg1 pointed out a while ago, I think there's also some potential for mini air-layers to establish a very even radial root spread, or just to move the roots "up" a few inches on a seedling.
For the new cuttings that I add, I'll probably test more pencil thick cuttings as maybe they have more stored energy/water. @cmeg1 also advised taking cuttings from very well hydrated mother plants at the end of the day.
it's all just theory and testing at the moment.
Cheers!

From what I’ve read, bottom heat is one of the best ways to speed up the rooting process, I found my pump heats the water to tepid nicely and my house doesn’t drop below 18 degrees c this time of year and is mostly around 20… I’m assuming the water stays that temp as well, especially with the pump…

Oh yes I have seen Cmegs thread, the air layering of elms I think, very impressive root spread and healthy plants.

Regarding thicker cuttings this is something I was also considering for my next batch, a lot more sugars and maybe auxins and hormones within the stem, may help for a better plant… I’ve also seen a guy seal the cut end with hot wax to stop any moisture loss and he has good results and bumps extremely fast too (3 days he said)

Some say beginning of day for cuttings but definitely worth trying any time, I suppose position has part to play too, shade, full sun etc… lots of technicality’s

Great pic of the last cutting ! Nice roots, did it do well in soil ?

That’s another topic I need to experiment with, aftercare once rooted

 

[Sootys trees]

Day 12-13
Sango and little princess

 

[Sootys trees]

Coming up for 3 weeks tomorrow, everything looks fresh on my most of the stems and the bumps / root tips are becoming more pronounced each day. Many are showing new buds at the top and under the petioles.
I mist when the leaves look dry so 2-3 x a day, haven’t started cycling the pump yet but it does get switched off for 15 minutes 2-4 x a day, light is on constantly.

I think these are going in the right direction but any advice on how to get roots faster at this point would be much appreciated, other than a reservoir additive or pump cycle routine, I think it’s just waiting for roots now… pics …

Little princess

Sango kaku

 

[sevan]

Thanks for sharing. I'll be interested to see how things develop.

Here's what I'm attempting:

Test 3
Using tap water, ph adjusted to 6 after all the additives.
Dip cuttings 5 minutes in dip n grow Rooting hormone

In the resevoir, per gallon:
1ml dip n grow concentrate
8ml Hydrogen peroxide
5ml clonex cloning liquid
2.5ml humic/fulvic acid

If there's callusing/root tips after 1 week,
I'll add:
5ml clonex
2.5ml humic acid
1ml kelp

1 18in led plant light on 24/7
Water temp 65deg F ish
Spray 30min on 1hr off.

We'll see how it goes. I've reduced the additives, thinking maybe that's preventing growth? I also had the timer on 30/30 last time. Lots of people seem to run Timers 1 min on/5 off or 5/30off. But, the cost and programing for a short interval timer is way more, so, trying to cheat a little bit.

I used this timer for my aeroponic system a few years ago. It has short cycles and only costs $14. The last 3 years I've used it for my winter lighting for my tropicals when I bring them inside.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B086DN9QT3?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[Sootys trees]

I used this timer for my aeroponic system a few years ago. It has short cycles and only costs $14. The last 3 years I've used it for my winter lighting for my tropicals when I bring them inside.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B086DN9QT3?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Nice bit of equipment thank you
Have you noticed faster results cycling the pump in comparison to having it running constantly?

 

[RoadManDenDron]

any advice on how to get roots faster at this point would be much appreciated,

for me the secret to faster rooting lies in mother plants prep

high BRIX mother plants, fill the leaves and tissues with energy and when separated they are more equipped to root and survive alone

 

[sevan]

Nice bit of equipment thank you
Have you noticed faster results cycling the pump in comparison to having it running constantly?

I only tried it on seedlings, not cuttings, but it seemed to work well. I don't remember exactly what my setting was, but I think I did 1 min on, 15 min off. This thread has my project info, but the aeroponic system was just a brief phase and I haven't tried it again for anything else.

Brazilian Ironwood Hydroponic Project

I learned about Brazilian Ironwood (libidibia ferrea) trees from an old thread and was really interested in finding one. However, being inappropriate for my zone, they don't seem to be easy to find, so I decided to order some seeds and see if I can make a long-term learning project out of it. I...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[MaxChavez]

for me the secret to faster rooting lies in mother plants prep

high BRIX mother plants, fill the leaves and tissues with energy and when separated they are more equipped to root and survive alone

Good tip. Do you like a normal fert routine? Or prepping the mother plant with clonex, etc?

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Good tip. Do you like a normal fert routine? Or prepping the mother plant with clonex, etc?

Not quite normal fert,

Mother plants fert is a 1:1 Nitrogen to Potassium ratio and you want just enough N to keep the plant from showing signs of N deficiency, we don't want long shoots we want lots of stored energy (high brix)

Too much N is no good for any plant, it creates weak cells. Especially mother plants this makes cuttings unnecessarily difficult.

I also then use humic or fulvic with kelp

And tech grade amino acids in the soil to tell plants to take more (up to 1000x more) calcium, which then obviously I also provide both at the roots and with my foliar.

Just 2 weeks mother prep is enough but can do a month to be sure, I have trees I only use for cuttings which are just permanently fed mother solution through out the growing season.

On top of that is the obvious physical preparation, making sure plant is disease and pest free which high BRIX and high calcium promotes already.

 

[MaxChavez]

Not quite normal fert,

Mother plants fert is a 1:1 Nitrogen to Potassium ratio and you want just enough N to keep the plant from showing signs of N deficiency, we don't want long shoots we want lots of stored energy (high brix)

Too much N is no good for any plant, it creates weak cells. Especially mother plants this makes cuttings unnecessarily difficult.

I also then use humic or fulvic with kelp

And tech grade amino acids in the soil to tell plants to take more (up to 1000x more) calcium, which then obviously I also provide both at the roots and with my foliar.

Just 2 weeks mother prep is enough but can do a month to be sure, I have trees I only use for cuttings which are just permanently fed mother solution through out the growing season.

On top of that is the obvious physical preparation, making sure plant is disease and pest free which high BRIX and high calcium promotes already.

Thanks for the great info!

Off to go dose the trees in the park across the street from my house!

 

[MaxChavez]

Not quite normal fert,

Mother plants fert is a 1:1 Nitrogen to Potassium ratio and you want just enough N to keep the plant from showing signs of N deficiency, we don't want long shoots we want lots of stored energy (high brix)

Too much N is no good for any plant, it creates weak cells. Especially mother plants this makes cuttings unnecessarily difficult.

I also then use humic or fulvic with kelp

And tech grade amino acids in the soil to tell plants to take more (up to 1000x more) calcium, which then obviously I also provide both at the roots and with my foliar.

Just 2 weeks mother prep is enough but can do a month to be sure, I have trees I only use for cuttings which are just permanently fed mother solution through out the growing season.

On top of that is the obvious physical preparation, making sure plant is disease and pest free which high BRIX and high calcium promotes already.

Can I ask your thoughts on amount of foliage? Since there's almost no wilting or dessication, I'm wondering about leaving more leaves, like a dozen or so. Or is all the initial root growth powered by stored energy?
Lastly, any thoughts on light amount and cycle?
I currently have a double strip led overhead on 24/7. But, is there an advantage for the ebb and flow of having 4-6 hours off? Or even 9on 3 off or something?
Would you mind sharing tips on the form of calcium added to the reservoir?

Thanks much!

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I leave 2 or 3 leaves, if they are biggish leaves I cut them in half, too many leaves and the cutting can waste energy trying to maintain leaves rather than growing roots. My main concern with foliage in a high humidity environment is mould more than wilting.

I will say feel free to try though, I have made cuttings with branches already by leaving a leaf at the end of each branch.

In the beginning 24 hour light is no problem, 18-24 hours on is recommended

After rooting you want to turn it down to 14- 18 hours on.

I use calcium nitrate which is 98% soluble in water.

 

[cmeg1]

this is very fun work…..

 

[Sootys trees]

this is very fun work…..

Certainly is , do you have any threads or experience with Japanese maple propagation using an aeroponic set up ?
I’ve definitely seen some if not most of your threads propagating pines and zelkova your very successful it’s so interesting to watch

 

[Sootys trees]

Coming up for 4 weeks on Sunday, Sango kaku is looking ready to give out some roots I think but not sure if it’s just calus I can’t say




And little princess very similar, kind of like a hoof

 

[cmeg1]

Coming up for 4 weeks on Sunday, Sango kaku is looking ready to give out some roots I think but not sure if it’s just calus I can’t say
View attachment 553267

View attachment 553268View attachment 553269View attachment 553270View attachment 553271

And little princess very similar, kind of like a hoof


View attachment 553272View attachment 553273
View attachment 553275View attachment 553276

Them little white nubs should root