advice on shape for an old boxwood

[greenleaves]

This was dug from a hedge back in march. It got a severe cutback and cleanup on dead trunks/branches, but perhaps not severe enough? Im a bit confounded by overall style for this clumpy thing, whether to go for oak style or more traditional shape? (also the pot is not necessarily the right one for this though I do like it - I collected 14 trees from the hedge and ran out of available flats)

 

[misfit11]

Great Boxwood material! IMO, this is ideal for Oak style. The base is powerful and then you've got informal broom style branches emanating from it. It looks like you've got some good back budding on the trunk and primary branches.
I think you might want to do away with the branch on the left as the rest of the tree seems to move towards the right. You could do some carving at the chop site and make it into a deadwood feature. But I wouldn't do this right now. Keep it as you may decide it's needed in the final design later. I will try to create a crude virt if I get a chance.
Also, the branch in the back crosses the one in the front. That probably needs to be shortened drastically.
Boxwoods make great bonsai and are enjoyable to work on. Mine are some of my best trees.

 

[misfit11]

I would probably cut back to the red lines and see what kind of back budding you get. Timing really depends on how strong it's been since collection. Only you know the answer to this. When I collected mine, they didn't miss a beat and grew very strongly through the summer. I started styling them that fall. You may want to wait until next spring to do any major work.
Can you post a picture of the back?

 

[greenleaves]

I would probably cut back to the red lines and see what kind of back budding you get. Timing really depends on how strong it's been since collection. Only you know the answer to this. When I collected mine, they didn't miss a beat and grew very strongly through the summer. I started styling them that fall. You may want to wait until next spring to do any major work.
Can you post a picture of the back?

awesome, thanks! these did backbud strong since spring, on the interior and exterior, but not so much in between. ill see if i can get some more pics tomorrow from different angles. i guess theres also a possibility of a different front entirely, if Im going to drastically reduce again in the spring.

 

[greenleaves]

I would probably cut back to the red lines and see what kind of back budding you get. Timing really depends on how strong it's been since collection. Only you know the answer to this. When I collected mine, they didn't miss a beat and grew very strongly through the summer. I started styling them that fall. You may want to wait until next spring to do any major work.
Can you post a picture of the back?

here's a few more angles which may present other interesting possibilities. I agree the current front has a powerful look. Other angles provide more visibility of flare at the base.

 

[TyroTinker]

I really like this angle. I’m not experienced enough to be confident picking branches to keep or cut, of the ones crossing here. But I think this is the best angle you’ve shown. I think you’ll be able to keep more of the overall width of the branches with this as the front, which will go nice with the roots and with an oak style top. I just don’t know how to deal with those middle branches.
Nice looking tree though

 

[misfit11]

I really like this angle. I’m not experienced enough to be confident picking branches to keep or cut, of the ones crossing here. But I think this is the best angle you’ve shown. I think you’ll be able to keep more of the overall width of the branches with this as the front, which will go nice with the roots and with an oak style top. I just don’t know how to deal with those middle branches.
Nice looking tree though

I wholeheartedly agree. This is your front. Very very nice!

 

[misfit11]

I think I would begin by doing some hard pruning further out on the branches than I indicated with my red lines. Cut back hard but leave some foliage on each branch to draw sap. This will hopefully stimulate backbudding where you need it.

 

[greenleaves]

I really like this angle. I’m not experienced enough to be confident picking branches to keep or cut, of the ones crossing here. But I think this is the best angle you’ve shown. I think you’ll be able to keep more of the overall width of the branches with this as the front, which will go nice with the roots and with an oak style top. I just don’t know how to deal with those middle branches.
Nice looking tree though

yea this is a compelling angle isnt it?? one issue is that the 'left' trunk (in the current front view) stick way out at the viewer and conceals a lot of the good movement behind it. perhaps I can make that the 'short trunk' and do some heavy carving there.

 

[AppleBonsai]

What a badass Boxwood @greenleaves ! Would agree to cut back- definitely on the branches with more than two branches emerging (inverse taper sites) ...And agree it's good for an oak style. Again- super nice score!

 

[leatherback]

I am going to be a party pooper.

Box can be tricky on backbudding. I had two larger specimens and these backbudded very well the year of collection. After that I hard a harder time. I think it is important to het the plant very healthy before cutting back The growth you see now, could be just on stored energy. With buxes I would not do a hard cut again within 2 years of the first major reductions.

This is too bold a tree to just make styling decisions on through a webforum. I would recommend getting someone who does hae experience to look at it in person before doing any other reductions.

 

[Shibui]

This is too bold a tree to just make styling decisions on through a webforum. I would recommend getting someone who does hae experience to look at it in person before doing any other reductions.

I agree. Too hard to see and assess all the 3D movement of trunks and branches from just a couple of photos. I know there will always be experts who think they can but they also don't have to take responsibility for the results.

I really like this angle.

That does appear to be the best view of the base but bonsai is not just nebari and tachiagari. Bonsai design, especially with existing material, is usually a compromise between the best nebari, best trunk , best branch placement while maximising features and minimising faults.

 

[GroveBonsai]

This guy seems to have amazing older boxwoods that he grafts new foliage onto. Just food for thought. Hope it helps.

Bud Grafting an old Japanese Boxwood

Bonsai in Austin, Texas with urban and wild Yamadori (collected trees).

hotbonsai.blogspot.com

 

[rockm]

awesome, thanks! these did backbud strong since spring, on the interior and exterior, but not so much in between. ill see if i can get some more pics tomorrow from different angles. i guess theres also a possibility of a different front entirely, if Im going to drastically reduce again in the spring.

I would NOT do much of anything more to these for at least a year, three would be better. Backbudding and even growth on material like this so soon after collection IS NOT A SIGN of recovery. It is a sign the plant is probably drawing on its reserves and not pushing new roots. I have collected 150 year old boxwood and had them push new growth the first year, then die off the second. Root examination after the death showed the plant hadn't produced any new roots and was running completely on reserves....

 

[sorce]

party pooper

That is a righteous smelling poop!

All of the above advice is good, but there is an extreme balance to the whole thing.

This is great material, but it's long material.
Keep a realistic 20 year time frame on it.

To reach appropriate thickness, proportions, etc, for ONLY your next branches off the subtrunks will take years.

When those low branches throw longer branches with bigger leaves than the rest, you'll know they are sticking around for the party.

Until then it is reserve growth dead set on aiding survival. That's why it is tight and clustered.

Sorce

 

[TyroTinker]

I am going to be a party pooper.

Box can be tricky on backbudding. I had two larger specimens and these backbudded very well the year of collection. After that I hard a harder time. I think it is important to het the plant very healthy before cutting back The growth you see now, could be just on stored energy. With buxes I would not do a hard cut again within 2 years of the first major reductions.

This isn’t a party pooper statement. You may have just helped saved this tree

This is too bold a tree to just make styling decisions on through a webforum. I would recommend getting someone who does hae experience to look at it in person before doing any other reductions.

I totally agree with this. Just offering my opinion cause this angle ‘spoke’ to me, but didn’t seem to be chosen. Someone who sees it in person would be much better, especially if you can find someone who has a lot of experience. I like your description leatherback “to bold of a tree” it’s really fitting.

@greenleaves I would definitely listen to everyone who is telling you to error on the side of caution. It’s really good advice

 

[greenleaves]

I agree. Too hard to see and assess all the 3D movement of trunks and branches from just a couple of photos. I know there will always be experts who think they can but they also don't have to take responsibility for the results.


That does appear to be the best view of the base but bonsai is not just nebari and tachiagari. Bonsai design, especially with existing material, is usually a compromise between the best nebari, best trunk , best branch placement while maximising features and minimising faults.

Agreed. 2D photos can be deceiving. Even in 3D this one is a tad tricky (hence the post, heh)! Appreciate all the help on balancing those decisions.

@sorce @leatherback @rockm - thanks for the reminders! its so easy to get excited about new material and forget this is going to take a while to reform. Its a beast of a trunk (estimates are ~ 80-90 years) and getting the right taper into the branching is def going to take many years. Fortunately this IS growing strong new roots so Im encouraged for its future.

 

[greenleaves]

Updating this boxwood. Tree was rotated in pot slightly, cut back and carved/wired. Going to let it fill in again some more before next moves.