Acacia Erubescens (Blouhaak) wiring and pruning advice.

[abNormal_ZA]

Hey everyone, this is my first post. This is my first time bonsaiing and I would appreciate any and all advice with regards to wiring technique and pruning that can be done to my tree.

The small one is an Acacia Erubescens and I BELIEVE the bigger one is a Black Monkey Thorn or Acacia Burkei. I repotted them into bonsai mixture last night and wired them with 4mm copper wire today. I also pruned the Burkei a week ago. I don't know how old the Burkei is but my Erubescens is about 10 years old according to the information card that came with it when I bought it.

Any comments and critique of my technique will be appreciated as it will help me learn and grow!

 

[abNormal_ZA]

Im having a bit of trouble with the image uploading but the third image is in the "attached files" section.

 

[Geo]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/oom_piet/4977451060/in/photostream/

This is an Acacia erubescens by Mr. Piet Grobler on Flickr. Notice the funky exposed roots:like yours but managed more in the long run.Many Acacias are trained in a more "naturalistic" style. Here is one that is perhaps a model-Acacia erubescens:



You seem to be after a more informal upright configuration. Please fill in your location in your profile.It is really helpful for others who might want to give detailed advice. And a warm welcome to BNut,the most populated bonsai forum around(lots more posts than most,at any rate.)

 

[abNormal_ZA]

Hey Geo, thanks for replying I've filled in my location details.
The second picture (the one of the Acacia in the wild) is exactly what I'm going for. I'm not sure that this conforms to any specific bonsai style but I'm doing my best to cultivate a mini Acacia and it should look how it looks in the wild (but little). I'm waiting on a shipment of an assortment of Japanese seeds so I can begin growing trees more suited to "REAL" bonsai.

Thank you for your warm welcome

 

[petegreg]

I think this acacia species has really lovely small leaves and suits well for bonsai.

 

[fredman]

Welcome. Good to see you here
When you say you replanted in bonsai soil, it frightens me a bit. Not a good time to replant acacia. How did you repotted? Did you just slipped it into the pot, or bare rooted it?
What exactly is your bonsai soil?

Man you are talking to my soul when you talk Blouhaak. To me its the most beautiful of the thorns. It has real character. Seen some beauties out in the bushveld. The umbrella style would suite them perfect. That is the way they grow when matured.... though not as defined as tortillis. Please Please don't style them looking like a pine tree (only my opinion)
Observe them as they are growing in the bush. I think that will eventually give you the most pleasure, and the tree will respond best if its taken the way it wants to go....

Those roots on the monkey thorn are a mess. They need to be spread out not tangled up. Don't know how exactly to go about doing that. Not sure how well it layers. You'll have to speak to locals at a bonsai club or somewhere about that...someone that knows the species...
They are a good species that responds well to bonsai techniques. Have you considered joining a club or know other people doing bonsai?

 

[abNormal_ZA]

Hey fredman and petegreg thanks for replying And thank you fred for the welcome.
What I did was took it out of the pot, took most of its old soil off, trimmed the roots VERY lightly (like one or two snips of the long ones) then repotted it into the new pot with 1 half river sand, 1 quarter top soil and 1 quarter compost.
Dont worry I definitely dont want my baby to look like a pine tree haha

I need to do more research into bonsai clubs in my area; I've never heard of any! And I've already met another chap here who has given me the address of a bonsai nursery in my area that I didn't even know existed so things are moving in the right direction!

 

[sorce]

Those thorns are wicked!
Hooked back? Don't get impaled by those branches!

Speaking of Impala!

Use solid wire!

Sorce

 

[JoeR]

It would help more if you guys told him how to make it a flat top instead of just saying he needs to make it one.


I couldnt tell you how to make it a FT from this point.

 

[abNormal_ZA]

It would help a bit if I got some advice on how to proceed from this point as right now I'm basically just eyeballing it.

I've been looking at so many videos and books on bonsai that my brain is about to explode but what someone told me really made sense and that was, "Things really tend to go wrong when you listen to too many people at once." So I've decided to stick to these forums and try take as much advice from you guys as possible.

So some constructive advice would be really helpful, if you guys can do that .

 

[sorce]

@YukiShiro and @Dorian Fourie

Besides Fredman, I don't know know who else might know these answers.

If it will root from a layer....
I'd layer it, Probly right where the wire is at the bottom.
That'll give you a nice new even root spread. Them roots is a mess!

If it will backbud......
I'd chop it after the first 2 branches.

If it will root from cuttings, I'd root all the top branches.

Right now.....
This tree is kinda 2D, and telephone polish. Pole....ISH.
Anything to remedy that!

Sorce

 

[fredman]

My comments will be to use this winter ahead to read as much as you can on the basics of doing bonsai (don't take this personal but your wiring is terrible to say the least, but don't despair, that's how we all started.....)
Start at the beginning.... how to water according to the soil you have. The soil you have them in, is very water retentive and you'll have to be very careful to not keep them to wet over this coming winter..... not to dry either. The bottom of the trunk where it emerges from the soil should be kept dry as much as possible. They dont like being water logged for to long. The flakes on the bark falls away and it looses its appeal. Keep the roots just just moist, and just just dry.... Concentrate on keeping them alive this winter, while you suck up as much info as you can. Come next spring you can make some more informed decisions. That's the best way forward bra
As Sorce suggested, the two people above are from you area and they post here. Contact them by PM and discuss the soil issue with them. Its not easy to get the components in SA, that are regularly talked about here. They use different stuff there, that gives good results to. Search Charles Ceronio on line. He is in Pta. He's got some great books about SAn bonsai and specifically the styles.
As to your two thorns. I don't know about the Monkey. The roots can never work like that, and I don't think it layers very well in order to get new radial roots. If it was mine I would plant it in the ground, and get another from the bonsai nursery (sorry my mater)
The Blouhaak is a little bit past the stage to make a umbrella from. The trunk I think is to long in relation to where the primaries fork out, to make a believable umbrella. It'll have to be cut down drastically and then hope for back buds in the right places to get the right primary branches, and as it is Acacia don't back bud well.
I don't know what more to say other than, the more you research the more you'll come up with your own answers. That's just the way it is with bonsai....
If you have any more questions don't hesitate....Shoot

 

[YukiShiro]

"Acacia don't back bud well" heh?

Fred buddy, I assume they do not back-bud well for you in NZ?
Acacia back buds like crazy for me dude,

@abNormal_ZA
for soil u can use sifted pine bark mixed with equal parts of washed silica sand
repot them in spring, do not bare root them...they will die if you do...
get them into bigger pots and grow those trunks out, you need girth on those trunks. do not cut anything for now. Later when the trunks have enough girth you can trunk chop them and grow the next section of trunk. The monkey thorn will grow fast for you, blue thorn is slower growing. a Nice nebari is very difficult to do with acacia. they do however air layer and cuttings are possible, my wife has a very nice black monkey thorn she grew from a cutting

where in JHB are you situated? the warmer north or west or colder south or east?
that blue thorn needs to be protected through winter if the temps dip below 2 Celsius where you live, the black monkey thorn will also need cold protection.

best regards
Herman

 

[petegreg]

"Acacia don't back bud well" heh?

Maybe this depends on the species. I've got some from Egypt and Albizia julibrissin from seeds, they do back bud.

 

[YukiShiro]

Maybe this depends on the species. I've got some from Egypt and Albizia julibrissin from seeds, they do back bud.

most of them have to be able to back bud, there's a lot of animals that would browse on them, they would just regrow to fill up the space again. but I agree some of them could be difficult to get to back bud, like the camel thorn (Acacia Erioloba)

this A. Galipinii was created from back buds I sawed it short after collection and termites created the hollow trunk effect for me , the back buds became the primary branches you see in the picture

best regards
Herman

 

[petegreg]

Nice, GP says Termites love wood.
http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/termitetm-wood-carving-burrs-coarse-grade-3-2mm-shaft

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Hey AbNormalZA

Didn't know there was a thread going here too. I only saw the one on the other forum that I had been responding to.

Fredman and Herman have both given very much the same advice that I did as per the other forum so I think you are definitely on the right track here. Keep us in the loop on how this progresses.

 

[fredman]

Wow how did I overlook this...

Fred buddy, I assume they do not back-bud well for you in NZ?
Acacia back buds like crazy for me dude,

Yeah I said that wrong. Should've said its not famous for forming new growth on older wood. Thing is I had this Blouhaak in mind and specifically styling it into a umbrella. To do that one don't stand a chance of getting back buds from the trunk or primaries to start the back bone of a umbrella. The trunk has to be chopped and started again to achieve that...
As to the Black monkey...that is a lost cause as far as any acacia styling goes. That's just MHO. Acacias roots just don't look good and natural that way. One could try layering, but I'm not convinced the success rate will be to high...
But I see on the other forum that Dorian got you sorted, so you're in good hands...

 

[YukiShiro]

Should've said its not famous for forming new growth on older wood

it does....and is....for, sorry to be blunt, but where did you get this idea or who gave it to you? what do you mean with the term older wood?

btw the tree I posted is about 10 years old. When i got it, it was almost 3 meters tall when I chopped it back to 40cm. Why in the world will his acacias not pop back buds? they're surely close to 3 years old... as if age would determine anything, frost killed my fiance's black monkey thorn back to almost soil level and she had to stand ready rubbing buds and pruning back branches she didn't need from back buds on OLD WOOD this growing season, the tree is 25 years old as a bonsai!

and last question, why on earth would you suggest trunk chopping if new growth wouldn't form on "older wood" ?

I call BS

best regards
Herman

 

[fredman]

Gees you were way back in the queue when subtlety was handed out hey? Got a speed fine on your way to work?
Relax...Take a few deep breaths... We talking trees, not politics !!!
Take a look at the 1st pic of the black monkey above. You see that flaky bark? That is OLD WOOD. Older than the smooth newer growth. Do you see any buds on that flaky bark? What do you think the chances are that buds are going to pop there....? I'll tell you...they will pop easier on the ends where the newer growth is.
Its a different story if its chopped or frost damaged, but that wasn't the discussion up to now. The point I'm trying to make is about the Blouhaak being styled into an umbrella. To wait for buds on the trunk where the wood is older, will be hit and miss. That's why I said it has to be chopped and then built from scratch. When its chopped it will send new shoots to work with. Unless you can tell me another way to get it into a umbrella...?