About Princess Persimmon

[Potawatomi13]

Yes, if all you want is regular orange female I have far too many. come visit in spring

How cool. These root cuttings are which species; Princess or otherwise?

 

[bwaynef]

Can anyone comment as to how drastically these can be root pruned during the seedling stage? (Unsexed seedlings, so it'd be a waste to keep these roots.)

 

[NaoTK]

I would not remove more than 25% at a time, but it depends how much leaf mass it has. Persimmon has no chill, it will open all its leaves then collapse if the roots cannot support, as compared to a Japanese maple which will open slowly in response to having reduced roots.

 

[ChefB]

Could someone please post pics of princess persimmon seeds. I have been trying to source them from several different locations on the internet. So far I’ve gotten 2 batches one is larger than the other. They are both brown and on the flat side. The seeds I saw in pictures earlier in this thread look more round like a citrus seed. I will post pics of what I have when I am home from work. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

Could someone please post pics of princess persimmon seeds. I have been trying to source them from several different locations on the internet. So far I’ve gotten 2 batches one is larger than the other. They are both brown and on the flat side. The seeds I saw in pictures earlier in this thread look more round like a citrus seed. I will post pics of what I have when I am home from work. Any help is much appreciated.

They vary considerably and in many ways (size, color, shape, etc.)

Here are a few of mine

 

[NaoTK]

I have personally received diospyros lotus seeds falsely labelled as princess persimmon.. these are much flatter

 

[ChefB]

I have personally received diospyros lotus seeds falsely labelled as princess persimmon.. these are much flatter
View attachment 467555

One of the sets I received looks very much like this. Did you have to wait seven years to find out that those were not princess persimmon? Could you steer me to a vendor that has verified PP seeds?

 

[NaoTK]

Diospyrous lotus is a completely different species. The leaves are like 10 times larger than princess persimmon so you will know the first year. (those flower in 3 years btw)

 

[bwaynef]

I just ...processed several bags of princess persimmons for the seed and 70% of them are between globular and football shaped. The others have 1 mostly flat side.

Also, that job ranks up there with spraying lime sulfur in things I dislike doing. Whatever someone's charging for princess persimmon seeds that are already cleaned, its likely worth it.

 

[ochong]

Update on the tree from Post #106

I decided to wire it last night. I maybe should have put some raffia on the thicker branches.



I’m going to leave the strong growth on for a year and then air layer it off. The thinking to try and increase trunk girth as much as possible. If that seems futile, I could just air layer this spring.

An edit of the above to help show where it’s heading.

 

[NaoTK]

By the time the thicker branches set there will be black marks on the trunk. These do fade in time but its best to use raffia.
I have had little luck with air layers but please do try and let us know how it goes.

 

[Shogun610]

By the time the thicker branches set there will be black marks on the trunk. These do fade in time but its best to use raffia.
I have had little luck with air layers but please do try and let us know how it goes.

Would buddy/ grafting tape work as well?

 

[ochong]

By the time the thicker branches set there will be black marks on the trunk. These do fade in time but its best to use raffia.
I have had little luck with air layers but please do try and let us know how it goes.

Good to know. Do you know if the black marks are from the black anodizing on the aluminum specifically?

Will definitely follow up on the air layer results. Any thoughts on if delaying doing so will have any meaningful value to thickening the trunk? My understanding is it’s a very slow process with PP. Unsure how much a sacrifice branch can assist in that process.

 

[NaoTK]

Everyone should buy THIS! Dennis Votilla's wife found it and he has been using it for a couple years now. It has the feeling of raffia, but is an endless spool. It does not fall apart in water and lasts years on the tree. I apply it while dry.

About the black marks. I first thought it was tannins from the trunk bleeding through the bark. I actually tried applying wood bleach to the marks but they did not disappear. The bleach is a strong oxidizer. I don't know if the marks are from the anodized coating, but a strong scrub doesn't remove them. I might mess up a couple branches purposefully for testing. Like I said, after ~two years the marks will fade about half as black on their own.

About thickening the trunk, no you will not gain meaningful trunk diameter from one branch in a year. I have observed vast differences in caliper qualities among my trees. The Japanese classify small, medium, and large size PP trees and there is insane genetic diversity in PP. Some of my trees stay miniature and do not thicken even after 15 years. They just stay fine and ramified. Others put on massive caliper. And others put on massive root caliper, but not trunk caliper:

 

[Canada Bonsai]

there is insane genetic diversity in PP. Some of my trees stay miniature and do not thicken even after 15 years. They just stay fine and ramified. Others put on massive caliper. And others put on massive root caliper, but not trunk caliper

Yes!

And leaf size, shape, color, variegation, etc.! Some of my Princess Persimmons have 0.75cm (0.3") leaves whiles others are as much as 20cm (7.9")!

 

[HamburgerTrain]

Good to know. Do you know if the black marks are from the black anodizing on the aluminum specifically?

Will definitely follow up on the air layer results. Any thoughts on if delaying doing so will have any meaningful value to thickening the trunk? My understanding is it’s a very slow process with PP. Unsure how much a sacrifice branch can assist in that process.

Thats the kind of ”raffia“ i have. I feel better knowing it has Dennis’ endorsement.
IPA for breakfast, I like to add a little oj in mine for a more balanced breakfast, or pour over my Trader Joes frosted wheat squares.
I want to repot my one princess now. Are they delicate? Can I go ahead and repot and wire without killing it?

 

[badatusernames]

Are you using the raffia / etc anywhere you wire or are there other variables to be aware of?

 

[NaoTK]

Thats the kind of ”raffia“ i have. I feel better knowing it has Dennis’ endorsement.
IPA for breakfast, I like to add a little oj in mine for a more balanced breakfast, or pour over my Trader Joes frosted wheat squares.
I want to repot my one princess now. Are they delicate? Can I go ahead and repot and wire without killing it?

Now is a good week to repot. Go light on the root removal.

Are you using the raffia / etc anywhere you wire or are there other variables to be aware of?

I try to avoid wire for massive bends and use guy wires or wood spreaders. I only raffia heavy bends like >pencil thick that take a year or more to set. Young twigs and new shoots can set by late summer and haven't barked up enough to scar anyway.
If I repot a tree I will get very little growth that year, so I sometimes leave wire on for over a year. The first year after a repot the wire is just decoration and maybe the lignin is setting but I don't know.

BTW you can notch or carve out a PP branch to change the angle drastically and the tree takes it well.

 

[NaoTK]

I was just testing this year. This was done in March when the bud was swelling. It can also be done in late summer.

 

[ChefB]

Wow! Game changer. Nice work! Is that grafting tape of the electrical variety?