About Princess Persimmon

[NaoTK]

Female princess persimmon is kinda the Rolls Royce of pre-bonsai. From seed it takes seven or more years before the trees fruit, so from seed you don't know the females for a long time. And then you find that half of your crop is males that don't fruit. They are hard to strike cuttings from, and air-layering is difficult due to the thin bark. Root cuttings are usually successful - assuming you have a plant large enough to take root cuttings from.

The other challenge will be that they will only flower and fruit from prior year's growth. So you have to be careful if you prune in the late summer... because you might prune all of next year's flowers away. This is not much different from other fruiting bonsai but... there is an added challenge of managing bonsai AND managing the flower cycle.

And THAT is why they are so valuable!

I wanted to share my experience with princess persimmons from Evergreen Gardenworks.

A few years ago I bought 6 princess persimmons (D. rhombifolia) from EG, but they were different from the trees I got in Japan and from Dennis Vojtilla. They didn't lose their leaves in winter and the shape and color of the leaves was a little different. I chocked it up to genetic diversity until I saw a Tokiwagaki (D. morrisiana, do a google for 常盤柿) in a show in Japan. Evergreen Gardenworks sent me D. morrisiana labelled as D. rhombifolia. It's an easy mistake to make; the seeds and fruit and leaves are superficially similar. I am not complaining either because morrisiana is also a great bonsai species and considerably rarer than even rhombifolia. I just wanted people to know what I learned.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I wanted to share my experience with princess persimmons from Evergreen Gardenworks.

A few years ago I bought 6 princess persimmons (D. rhombifolia) from EG, but they were different from the trees I got in Japan and from Dennis Vojtilla. They didn't lose their leaves in winter and the shape and color of the leaves was a little different. I chocked it up to genetic diversity until I saw a Tokiwagaki (D. morrisiana, do a google for 常盤柿) in a show in Japan. Evergreen Gardenworks sent me D. morrisiana labelled as D. rhombifolia. It's an easy mistake to make; the seeds and fruit and leaves are superficially similar. I am not complaining either because morrisiana is also a great bonsai species and considerably rarer than even rhombifolia. I just wanted people to know what I learned.

Thanks, I was not aware of the existence of Diospyros morrisiana, I did not know it was in cultivation. I will pick some up. Obviously because they don't drop their leaves, this is a somewhat more "tropical" species of persimmon.

 

[NaoTK]

Thanks, I was not aware of the existence of Diospyros morrisiana, I did not know it was in cultivation. I will pick some up. Obviously because they don't drop their leaves, this is a somewhat more "tropical" species of persimmon.

In case anyone stumbles on this guide to common Diospyros (persimmon) in bonsai

D. morrisiana. The fruits are almost perfectly round. Only a few cultivars of rhombifolia resemble this.


D. morrisiana


D. rhombifolia. Note the ends of the fruit are almost always pointed.


D. rhombifolia


D. kaki


D. lotus. The fruits are much bigger than morrisiana and rhombifolia and are soft and squishy when ripe.


also D Virginiana but I don't have any good examples.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I wanted to share my experience with princess persimmons from Evergreen Gardenworks.

A few years ago I bought 6 princess persimmons (D. rhombifolia) from EG, but they were different from the trees I got in Japan and from Dennis Vojtilla. They didn't lose their leaves in winter and the shape and color of the leaves was a little different. I chocked it up to genetic diversity until I saw a Tokiwagaki (D. morrisiana, do a google for 常盤柿) in a show in Japan. Evergreen Gardenworks sent me D. morrisiana labelled as D. rhombifolia. It's an easy mistake to make; the seeds and fruit and leaves are superficially similar. I am not complaining either because morrisiana is also a great bonsai species and considerably rarer than even rhombifolia. I just wanted people to know what I learned.

This is very interesting. I bought a couple PP from EG last year and planted them in the ground. The leaves were a bit smaller and thicker (more leathery...almost like a ficus) than my other 2 Princess Persimmons already in pots. Brent’s also held their leaves almost all winter in the ground, where the PP in pots lost their leaves pretty early last fall. Wonder if mine from Brent are morrisiana as well. Guess I’ll know if/when they set fruit. Thanks for this info.

 

[K_10_G]

This is very interesting. I bought a couple PP from EG last year and planted them in the ground. The leaves were a bit smaller and thicker (more leathery...almost like a ficus) than my other 2 Princess Persimmons already in pots. Brent’s also held their leaves almost all winter in the ground, where the PP in pots lost their leaves pretty early last fall. Wonder if mine from Brent are morrisiana as well. Guess I’ll know if/when they set fruit. Thanks for this info.

I too picked up a few PP from EG in the winter of 2019, as you said they held the leaves all winter and were sluggish setting buds winter of 2020. This year I decided to cut off all leaves before tucking them away for winter hibernation. I guess we’ll see if this helps. How did your do in the spring after holding on to leaves ?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I too picked up a few PP from EG in the winter of 2019, as you said they held the leaves all winter and were sluggish setting buds winter of 2020. This year I decided to cut off all leaves before tucking them away for winter hibernation. I guess we’ll see if this helps. How did your do in the spring after holding on to leaves ?

After reading that post, I went outside to get a few photos of those from Brent. I did not protect them, and they did just fine in the ground, over a relatively cold winter. Buds are just swelling, and some of last year’s leaves are still hanging on. Didn’t realize they develop thorns too.

Here is a PP from a different seller, which did have fruit when I received it. They had a pointed bottom. The last 2 years, it dropped any fruit it had set by early April. I’m hoping for better results this year by withholding fertilizer. It has a few fruit setting now.


@Bonsai Nut would you please move your Post 12 and post 60-forward to a new thread specific to Princess Persimmons...some good info here that could get lost here in time.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I too picked up a few PP from EG in the winter of 2019, as you said they held the leaves all winter and were sluggish setting buds winter of 2020. This year I decided to cut off all leaves before tucking them away for winter hibernation. I guess we’ll see if this helps. How did your do in the spring after holding on to leaves ?

 

[Njyamadori]

Also there should be a value of bonsai thread talking about what makes a tree more expensive and what beginners should invest most in .

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@NaoTK - Thank you very much for this information

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Also there should be a value of bonsai thread talking about what makes a tree more expensive and what beginners should invest most in .

They exist. Search for them.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Two quick comments. D. rhombifolia fruit is not always pointed. I have some that are almost perfectly round, and some that are elongated. Also, seems like orange is the most common color, though I have at least one that is dark red.

@Brian Van Fleet mine have overwintered here just fine without any protection, and are just now coming out of dormancy and pushing buds. They were late in dropping leaves, and held their fruit almost through the entire winter.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Two quick comments. D. rhombifolia fruit is not always pointed. I have some that are almost perfectly round, and some that are elongated. Also, seems like orange is the most common color, though I have at least one that is dark red.

@Brian Van Fleet mine have overwintered here just fine without any protection, and are just now coming out of dormancy and pushing buds. They were late in dropping leaves, and held their fruit almost through the entire winter.

Hoping mine will hold fruit this year. Any pointers? I’m withholding fert this year and will see if that does the trick.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Hoping mine will hold fruit this year. Any pointers? I’m withholding fert this year and will see if that does the trick.

Did they flower last year? Did they fruit but just dropped the fruit prematurely?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Did they flower last year? Did they fruit but just dropped the fruit prematurely?

The potted ones set fruit in March, just like now, but they dropped off by April. I don’t think those in the ground flowered. They’re unsexed and only a few years old. I’ll watch them a little closer this year. I’m pleasantly surprised with their hardiness and their growth rate. 3-4’ in a year.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

They remind me a little of Japanese quince in how they sprout everywhere from the roots, though it is hard to get the main trunk to put on a ton of girth.

Last year because of the move, I had to remove all the fruit. I bagged it up, took it out here to NC, and I planted all the seeds in a couple of Anderson flats, where a good number (100's) germinated. The prior year I left the fruit on all year. With citrus, I know you are supposed to stop fertilizing when they bloom, and not fertilize again until the fruit is set - when it is about 1/2 or so in diameter. So I agree that might help. I have been applying weak organic fertilizer early in the year and just left it on until I saw it broke down... so I can't say that I stopped fertilizing as much as I just didn't apply more/new fertilizer, usually until early summer (June-ish).

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Fingers crossed...feed withheld...at least 3 fruits setting on this one right now.

 

[namnhi]

Fingers crossed...feed withheld...at least 3 fruits setting on this one right now.
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Oh the pot! Love the pot and the tree. Am still not sure how that tree can survive in that tiny pot.

 

[NaoTK]

No flowers or even leaves yet here in Oregon.

I was inspired by Brian Van Fleets' small PP and wanted to share my girthiest PP at 4" base, 2" trunk. Right now it has a slingshot thing going on, but from the right angle the left one will be the dominate trunk and the right one will be subordinate, come forwards and rightward. Update you in ten years lol.

 

[rustygarden]

No flowers or even leaves yet here in Oregon.

I was inspired by Brian Van Fleets' small PP and wanted to share my girthiest PP at 4" base, 2" trunk. Right now it has a slingshot thing going on, but from the right angle the left one will be the dominate trunk and the right one will be subordinate, come forwards and rightward. Update you in ten years lol.

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Dennis said you had a thing for these . He showed me all the pots you were trading . I will post mine when it warms up a bit .

 

[NaoTK]

Dennis said you had a thing for these . He showed me all the pots you were trading . I will post mine when it warms up a bit .

Dennis and I disagree about who is getting the upper hand on these trades Would love to see your tree