A serious discussion about building intrest in bonsai for the 15-35 crowd

Wilson said:
I think as some have already said, it is hard to make it attractive. If you were able to find "celebrities" who enjoy the hobby, and get them on board for an attempt to attract young people to the art. Students of agriculture, or arts could be draw into the hobby if there is good representation on the campuses.
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We lost Mr. Miaggii (sp?) Our most high profile bonsai master :)
 
I know I will be accused of being a dark cynic, but I have seen others carry out this impulse and I think it is misguided and I question what the motivation really is, and in the end, I think the whole ambition does more harm than good. For some reason, people are just compelled to gain converts in what they believe in. It becomes a mission work, they self-sacrifice to spread the word, they become bonzo evangalists, white foam collects in the corners of their mouths as they proselytize, their eyes wild and desperate, they so want to cultivate the young tender ones. I firmly believe that what makes things like bonsai attractive is seeing passionate and dynamic individuals themselves practicing it at a high level. So many of the bonsai scenes I know of are filled with pot-bellied dull old men that spend their time memorizing Japanese tree-part words and teaching basic classes into perpetuity. I think bonsai, like most things, is best shared through attraction, not promotion. So get out there, do some amazing work, post it online, set up a show, get crazy, put a bone in your nose, design something stupendous, be that dynamic dude or bodacious bonzo babe, and this may attract someone with a younger heartbeat. Meanwhile, us old men (and women) will putter along teetering on the brink of mediocrity.
 
Ya that was pretty crusty! We need a wall of fame thread for this zinger...
"So many of the bonsai scenes I know of are filled with pot-bellied dull old men that spend their time memorizing Japanese tree-part words and teaching basic classes into perpetuity."
That is classic.
 
I have not even reached the brink of mediocrity yet :)
 
crust said:
Meanwhile, us old men (and women) will putter along teetering on the brink of mediocrity.
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I think you are safely distant from this brink.

Me, I'm trying to get closer to it.
I've got the puttering part down, I think. Its pretty fun.
Without the spare time to putter around, bonsai is not so enjoyable.
 
Got to agree with a lot of what @crust said...

I myself wondered aloud a time or two about how to spread Bonsai far and wide... the truth is- let's say we can get a million new people interested. What then?

We sell them a million Juniper cuttings and tell them to watch them grow for 50 years? Who is going to provide the million trees of the next level they will want? And the level after that....

The tools, the dirt... suddenly DEMAND begins to skyrocket, as do prices for everything accordingly and Bonsai is already a PREMIUM hobby. You do not get out cheap period. If you want to do it at any high level, it COSTS MONEY. Which is where the rubber really meets the road- Young people in general do not have money! Not to the point where dropping $75-100+ for each pot is an easy task and the trees themselves cost well North of that! Then the maintenance- the tools, soil substrates... all cost insane money! This ain't like buying a damn goldfish! Anyone who wants to get beyond dropping $20 at Wal Mart or Lowes on a tree that will probably die within a year... has to make substantial investments of time and money..

So, the kids don't have money. Do they have TIME? Hell no! This is an instant gratification society! Telling a 20 year old today that they can buy a cutting or seedling, do everything right and in about 5-10 years MAYBE have a tree decent enough to do something with, and about 20-30 years after that might actually have a good bonsai! Watch how fast they will run away!

So, you have to take a piece of advice we were told in a recent sales meeting- the story goes like this: you are a lifeguard, two people are drowning at the same time a hundred yards apart- one you know is a GREAT swimmer.. freaking Michael Phelps out there... the other is a barely serviceable terrified newborn in the water! Which one do you save?
I joking responded you save Phelps because he will win gold medals for the US! The answer they give you in lifeguard school:
"Help the ones who want to be helped"!!

Think about hat for a second.

You go help the guy who thinks he is Michael Phelps, he might drown you too by fighting with you as you try to save him, refusing help...

To relate it back to the subject at hand- if you try to convince a bunch of people not interested in Bonsai to BE interested, they will be the "needy customers" you "sold" the idea to! Suddenly you are responsible for curating their interest further... because they didn't "want to be saved"... that is not a sustainable scenario for you or the new bonsai enthusiast... focus on improving Bonsai for those who ARE interested, who ARE dedicated. As a few others said- make Bonsai better in America! If you build it, they will come... but the ones who come will "WANT TO BE HELPED".
 
I also think a factor is that most hobbies in general have been waning. Mostly due to the fact that young people (btw I'm 33) as well as all working age people have been for many years on a constant "I NEED TO MAKE MONEY" rampage. That is the only thing people think about due to the fact that let's face it, it has been a matter of survival for most. And they are always just meeting bills.

This occupies so much focus and time that there is not time for any arts for that matter. Sad really. And many artists in all industries (music, painting, etc...) just make what sells. Period. Few and far between create things out of the sake of creation because they envisioned it.

With Bonsai also there is a huge intimidation factor as well. It is a very critical art, one where only the best is accepted. Young new people are made to feel stupid very quickly. Their visions torn apart by being told "it's a waste of time, get another tree." Now this ties in to the fact that the world IMO lately has been molded into weak, complacent folks.....they cannot take criticism and more importantly after being criticized instead of developing a FIRE to succeed and be better, they just give up.......

This is not a forgiving hobby and if someone is quick to give up instead of self correcting.... well they will quit or never try in the first place. The value of hard work as many have said here has also been lost.

Just a few questions I had in my head to share:

I am not against promoting Bonsai and getting new people to enjoy, appreciate and join, but I have to wonder also if on a large scale that would really be a good thing?

Why did Mall-sai show up? Because of someone trying to capitalize on a trend. That trend being yuppies stuck in city apartment that want plants in the house? If Bonsai is more mainstream, and trendy how many more Mall-sai will we see? Will we soon see GMO Bonsai?


I also think with Bonsai, that it is a type of art that lends the artists to be able to reach more people locally than globally. If that makes sense. I believe that is a good thing. But the local places need to have more events at their shops or events at things like county/state fairs. There would be more valuable climate specific info they would learn interacting with people from their area.

I won't name any names, but there is a shop I visit and it's a good shop. Great trees and supplies, great knowledge and all that good jazz.......but they rarely have events.

What I have found in businesses in this hobby is they always try just enough, but never try hard enough to really make themselves stand out locally. They could sponsor tree planting events for kids. Doesn't have to be bonsai specific but the name gets out there.

Just some of my thoughts thanks for reading
 
Interesting post and premise. I've been hearing "We need to get more young people interested in bonsai" for almost 30 years now. It's like a tide that washes in and then washes back out. In the 80s, The Karate Kid got a lot of people interested in bonsai, and many of them were young. How many are still at it, among that group? Probably less than 1%.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor, Woody. I will say, though, that I've taken a different tack when doing demos or in other appropriate forums, to wit: We need to get more old people involved in bonsai. I'm dead serious about that. Who else has the time, money, peace of mind, and the ability to find excitement in something that just sits there?

Zach
 
Adair M said:
Woody, I sympathize with your intention, but frankly that age group is going to be difficult to target. Let me rephrase that: that age group will find it difficult to incorporate into their lifestyle. I say this even though I discovered bonsai at around age 16 or 17, and have been interested ever since, I consider myself the exception rather than the rule.

Kids 15 to 18 will be going off to college. Once out of college, they'll be living in apartments. Probably moving frequently. Then they'll be getting married, setting up households...

About the time they're buying their first house, getting settled, that's the time when their lifestyle will slow down so they will be able to maintain trees in pots! Of course, that's also when they'll be starting having kids, and we all know how much time and money it takes to raise kids!

I'm sorry I can't offer a solution to the issues I've raised here.

Perhaps a way to get younger people involved is to try to get young couples to "adapt" bonsai trees. You know how they will get a dog as a baby substitute?

How about sitting outside Walmart with a cardboard box with "free bonsai" scribbled on? (Instead of kittens! Lol!!). When people stop by to look, hand out bonsai club literature? And give away seedlings.

Sponser a local "bring your bonsai to work day"?
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We have a youth group...as well as having two sons in that age group...and all their friends. I've only had one interested in bonsai...until she learned there was more to it...she was on the wall...then do to circumstances...moved away. I would think targeting the horticulture aspect on vocational schools where one is interested in growing things. But kids have after school activities...homework, then college and bonsai in a dorm is challenging at best...I wish you luck in your endeavor. But...the huge group we rub elbows with...yeah, aren't interested.
 
Maybe if someone can figure out how to turn bonsai into an app-based hobby that can be done on a phone, then it might have more appeal to younger people? I don't know, but I've seen the same problem in some art clubs I've belonged to. Membership rapidly aging and dwindling and not being replaced by young people. In one club, I think I'm the youngest member at 54. Once in a while someone younger joins, but they rarely last more than a year. I guess hanging around with a bunch of 50-80 year olds just isn't much fun.
 
I think I will echo some of the ideas said here as far as what I see are the roadblocks for most schoolage children as far as practicing Bonsai. The problem is really permanence and space for trees. I just dont think that it is realistic for many young folks. However I am in a college town with a large state university and I just spent the day speaking to lots of young folks about Bonsai and other Japanese culture while exhibiting a couple dozen trees. The main thing I see generating interest is the ability to see nice trees, large trees, forests, large rock plantings etc. to really appreciate Bonsai. Everyone really loved our display today and I answered questions for 6 hrs. In this regard we are working with the University Art Museum to try to see about a permanent Bonsai garden as part of the museum. I think this is a great way to get exposure to young people. The museum can then also be a place for people to donate trees to when they pass away and then the museum can sell off lesser material every few years to help pay for expenses and to constantly improve and grow it's own collection. A permanent place to see trees for new groups of students every year I think would be a great place to start. Maybe you could use your funds to spearhead fundraising for a permanent public collection.
 
crust said:
That is because you are from the AZ. I live in the soul-sucking land of misery, hell my plants are still in storage.
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Come on crust! I just watched Nigel here take out 7 larches from a frozen bucket of water, do a root job on them and throw them back in...man up. What one man can do another can!
 
As an individual in the 15-35 y/o category, I try to promote and share our hobby one person at a time. For example, my cousin's new wife is interested in trying to keep a bonsai, so on a trip to Merrifield's in Fairfax Co. VA, I used my allotted plant budget to purchase a small variegated ficus bonsai in hopes that this will instill in her an interest in the future. I figured this would be the perfect choice for a beginner wanting to start with a bonsai indoors.
 
In any field, it's always the biggest newbie blowhard who wants to present to his teacher girlfriend's grade school class about it (or something substantially similar). In other words they want an audience somewhere because the credible people already in the field have no use for them.

I can think of several personal examples.

People simply need to *age out* of the idea of that their fee-fees need to be protected and that some people being obviously better than others is just a part of life. To quote "the dude": "well, like, that's just your opinion, man."

That said, a friends 13 y/o daughter is excited about foster parenting a tree of mine. But she was already into plants and fairy gardens etc.

A cousin has said the very words: "I want a bonsai tree." So I will give him a newb appropriate gift.
 
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I haven't read all the posts, so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but you could start up a club, or offer to teach a clinic, summer class or leaders seminar (focused toward 4H leaders as opposed to just youth, who can then go and pass information on to their group) and kind of branch out through 4H? I know they appreciate people volunteering to teach youth skills and hobbies that can, as they say, last a lifetime.
It would solve the problem of reaching 15-18 (and younger) since many of the youth actively looking for projects and new hobbies. Horticulture is a rather thriving section of 4H, including not just produce, but herbs, houseplants and even bonsai themselves, since they can be grown in town and apartments and don't necessarily require land to raise.
You could probably get in contact with your local extension agency if it's something that interests you, and they could get you in touch with people higher up. 4H has branches in the US, Canada, Australia, and parts of Europe, although I'm not entirely sure how broad you can reach in a short amount of time.
The 4H Western Regional Leaders Forum includes 15 of the US States, and a couple Canadian provinces as well as Guam. Depending on what side of the country you live in, I believe the Eastern Regional Forum has a similar outreach.
Here's to wishing you the best in your endeavor. :)
 
I'm almost 21 and I'm extremely passionate about bonsai. Typically people of my age demographic will not have time (ie college, work, moving around a lot) or space (apartment complex, no yard, limited patio options). Money is also a big issue--living in Southern California I have access to good "cheaper" prebonsai material but all things considered it is still expensive for people around my age. Factor in soil, tools, fert, water and it gets really expensive. Then you have commitment issues--bonsai is a long term endeavor and would not appeal to the instant gratification crowd. Even those that are able will likely pursue a different interest. I would say the best group of people to begin advocating bonsai to are those in high school. Most kids will still be living with their parents and would more likely have a yard and space to grow trees. What Adair said is a good summary of challenges to getting into this hobby early. I'd say I'm pretty privileged to have been able to start bonsai so young.

In my particular case keeping trees at my apartment would be impossible. Shaded 100% of the time and insufficient space. I keep my trees at home and reply on a water system and my mom's help to keep them alive. During the weekdays I have classes and work in a lab, but on the weekends (at least once a month) I will visit home to do work on the trees, add ferts, etc. To have greater control over my watering schedule I redid my water system and installed a wirelessly controllable unit--now I can check the weather on my phone and choose when and how long to water.

That said there are always exceptions to convention and there are young people who could get into bonsai. Its undeniable that social media and the interwebs have their place especially with the younger demographic. Youtube, instagram, and facebook are a great means to increase your reach and possibly get younger members interested. Personally I have started my own blog, made a bonsai instagram, and may be making a youtube channel this summer. Shows and events are a bit more difficult--typically the people who attend are those already with an interest in bonsai. It's also a bit intimidating when you're the youngest person in all the local clubs and events.

A lot of what has been said on this thread is great. It's an important distinction that you are not getting anyone interested into bonsai, but rather offering the means for them to do so themselves. Once people understanding the appeal and enriching activity that bonsai is they will find a means to sustain it. You just need something to help people to get to that point.
 
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One other thing...I think bonsai requires a type of temperament to appreciate it. Something not everyone has or has yet to develop. While my interest in bonsai was developed independently I was exposed to bonsai at a younger age. When I was 12 or so my parents purchased and cared for a single tree. It was a Chinese Elm from the local bonsai nursery and they cared for for a few years until losing interest. I recall seeing the tree at that time and had no interest nor could understand the appeal in it. I even remember my dad saying that he wanted to grow a juniper bonsai. I remember telling him, "isn't a juniper a bush!?" "that's just a bush in a pot!" At that time I had no appreciation for bonsai and thought it to be stupid. Although I was a little shit I would imagine that many others of similar age to have similar thoughts. People who will appreciate bonsai the most are definitely older fellows. Here is some shameless advertising of my blog where I talked about why I love bonsai:
https://bontsai.com/2017/01/07/why-i-love-bonsai-and-my-trees/
 
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